Rendering engine

[SJAnstey]

What I suggesting is something quite radical.  If Firefox continues to lose market share to the likes of MS Edge and Chrome, the answer is simple.  Change the rendering engine from the current version of Gecko to the current version of Chromium (Blink maybe?) or Webkit (As used by Apple).  Microsoft did it and they are reaping the benefits of such a change,  So, why not Mozilla?

[jokari]

I am just a user. But I see one problem, and huge one in this radical posture: Firefox is a vessel to empower the Mozilla foundation to have a say in the W3C instances (and surely others).

Mozilla is one of the few organizations that participates in the development of web standards and is not directly interested in the commercialization of its user's data, not to mention the fact that they even defend the privacy aspects of their users. They are a counter power against commercial only ideas from Google or Facebook which would love to put a streaming line from your browser into their server directly.

If Gecko disappear, Mozilla input in W3C will become less relevant. Moves by Google, like limiting anti-advertising extensions will be more difficult to challenge (they already tried).

We will come back to a de-facto monopoly (like Microsoft internet explorer 20 years ago) and all the problems it entails.

One of my harshest criticism about the web is the multi-million lines of monstrous complexity that browsers had becomes. It ensure that no competition can rise from scratch. Now we have to make sure that gecko remain relevant or the web will be the apple store of Google and Facebook.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to say, but i think this is a very bad idea for the health of the web overall.

Since Google more or less controls the development of chromium and it engines (rendering+javascript), we would then have a defacto monopoly. 

I would not want them to have that extend of influence, especially since they dont seem to have the best interest of the users at heart, or care about their privacy.

[Anonymous]

Edge had the option of adopting Gecko, and could do so in the future, but I don't see Microsoft's willingness to compete in the market these days.

[gfriedman99]

The problem is that Gecko and SpiderMonkey are dogs compared to Chromium and V8.   It's the single biggest drawback Firefox has to the competition.   Mozilla has to address this issue or it will become totally irrelevant.   What good is an open source browser if nobody wants to use it due to slow (and sometimes incorrect) rendering performance.   If Mozilla cannot or will not address the rendering and javascript issues it has then I am all in favor of dropping Gecko for Chromium.   Otherwise I will be looking to migrate to another browser platform.  I have put up with the constant slowness for years.   There have been some improvements - mostly to memory handling.  But it seems like nothing ever improves with Gecko.   I always have to have a copy of Chrome available anyway - for those instances where certain websites don't work correctly due to the poor javascript handling in Firefox.  

[trickypr]

As a firefox fork developer, this is a bad idea. Gecko, the rendering engine behind Firefox isn't just a browser engine. At the current point in time it has become an entire toolkit. Every part of the browser is written in a version of (x)html with custom widgets that add specific functionality. That, combined with apis like ChromeUtils make it practically impossible to port without discarding literally everything.

Switching to a chromium base would make UI feature iterations slower, because the entire chromium UI is written within c/c++. It would also kill the userchrome community and a growing number of forks that are being built on the firefox UI.

[MaxxC]

Using Firefox browser, we will frequently encounter problems with the various websites we used daily such as banks, stockbrokers etc. and we can only access those sites with another browser. Some sites are/were difficult to navigate in Firefox especially the top menu. Sooner or later hardcore Firefox users will throw in the towels. Firefox team needs to wake up and change course before it's too late.

[MrAlex83]

In my opinion it isn't a good idea, as I already have read above, a monopoly is always a serious problem, not an enrichment; and the Web must be as much as possible for all. Maybe a kind of collaboration with Gnome or Kde projects that are linked to empower web browser too? Alex

[Saarsk]

This is a bad idea. FireFox being independent and not simply another Chrome-like browser is more important than people realize.

You would realize this only when it was too late. Which is why FireFox needs to be alive and prosper.

Monopoly is never a good thing and no company is immune to how it alters their decision-making. Competition and openness is what limits this.

[JerryBear]

As I understand things I agree with those who say creating a Chromium monopoly is a really, really bad thing. Add to that Mozilla is developing a next generation engine, 'Quantum', should hopefully ensure Firefox's independent evolution.

[RokeJulianLockh]

I don't think that this is a bad idea. The Chromium engine is FOSS, so Mozilla can fork it to remove what they deem harmful to achieve parity with Gecko in that respect, whilst reaping the benefits until now of the significant increase in speed that Chromium has over Gecko. Imagine WebUSB in Firefox being a mere compilation or about:config flag away, with halved load times!

[Windows_Vista]

The suggestion to make Firefox Chromium based completely misses the mark. Firefox’s strength has always been its independence, built on Gecko, which allows Mozilla to be a meaningful voice in web standards and privacy advocacy. However, while staying independent is crucial, Gecko is no longer enough to keep Firefox competitive. The solution is not to adopt a moronic Chromium approach but to focus on developing and fully committing to the Servo engine instead.

Servo is the modern high performance solution that could revitalize Firefox and position Mozilla as a leader in browser innovation. Unlike Gecko which has reached its limits, Servo has the potential to deliver faster smoother performance while making development and maintenance more efficient. Mozilla should prioritize collaboration with Igalia and the Linux Foundation to bring back Servo and make it the engine that powers not just Firefox but any future projects.

Switching to Chromium would be a moronic move that would destroy Mozilla’s ability to influence web standards and create an internet free from monopolistic control. It would reduce Firefox to yet another clone of Chrome. Instead, going full Servo would enable Mozilla to innovate independently while addressing the concerns about Gecko’s limitations. It is time to retire Gecko stop wasting resources on AI projects that do not matter to users and focus on Servo to truly make Firefox great again.

I started a thread discussing this very issue and encouraging Mozilla to ditch Gecko for Servo. You can check it out here https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/when-is-mozilla-gonna-ditch-the-gecko-browser-engine-for-...

Let us keep the conversation going to push Mozilla toward the right path.

[gfriedman99]

As a user and not a developer, I don't have a dog in the fight over the internals that Firefox uses.   We simply need a browser that works.   Our main concern are the number of websites that do not render or operate correctly whether the culprit is Gecko or Javascript or something else.   For instance I cannot pay my water/sewer bill on the NYC DEP website with Firefox.  It always gives you an "Operation Timed Out" message on the payment screen.  So I load Edge now and it works flawlessly.  This has been going on for years.   Likewise, you cannot navigate the Bose corporate website to order anything online.   Certain screens just don't load or it jumps to the wrong page for whatever reason.  Again it works just fine in Edge.   I don't have the knowledge to say what the issue is in Firefox or if it's even correctable as the product stands now.   And even if it could be fixed there is no way to report these problematic websites to Mozilla or feel like you are wasting your time by doing so.

[Windows_Vista]

@gfriedman99 Well this just proves how outdated Gecko really is. The fact that Firefox constantly struggles with compatibility issues and performance problems is downright embarrassing. Users shouldn’t have to resort to other browsers like Edge just to access basic websites. This kind of failure shows exactly why Gecko is holding Firefox back. Mozilla needs to stop pretending everything is fine and face the reality that Gecko’s limitations are dragging Firefox into irrelevance.

Look at Ladybird. A smaller team with far fewer resources is building a browser engine that continues to improve and outperform expectations while Mozilla remains stuck doing the bare minimum. It really feels like Mozilla isn’t even trying anymore. Firefox deserves better than this lackluster effort. The solution is simple. Mozilla needs to fully embrace Servo and give it the funding developers and attention it deserves. Servo is modern efficient and capable of fixing the problems that Gecko simply cannot.

What’s even more frustrating is that Servo’s development is already being continued but without Mozilla. Imagine how much faster Servo could progress if Mozilla actually got involved and provided support. With Mozilla’s resources and expertise Servo could evolve into the perfect browser engine. Firefox could finally live up to its potential. Instead Mozilla wastes time on irrelevant projects while Servo remains sidelined.

It is time for Mozilla to stop pretending and actually start making changes. Retire Gecko fully commit to Servo and show users that you are serious about making Firefox great again.

[Windows_Vista]

Hey what happened to my comment?

[RokeJulianLockh]

@Windows_Vista, if you mean #M49065, I still see it. About that comment, have you seen news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38681915? I ask because it looks to me like most of Servo's advancements have been merged into Gecko, according to anecdotes of those more familiar with the project than I.