Share your feedback on the AI services experiment in Nightly

[asafko]

Hi folks, 

In the next few days, we will start the Nightly experiment which provides easy access to AI services from the sidebar. This functionality is entirely optional, and it’s there to see if it’s a helpful addition to Firefox. It is not built into any core functionality and needs to be turned on by you to see it. 

If you want to try the experiment, activate it via Nightly Settings > Firefox Labs (please see full instructions here). 

We’d love to hear your feedback once you try out the feature, and we’re open to all your ideas and thoughts, whether it’s small tweaks to the current experience or big, creative suggestions that could boost your productivity and make accessing your favorite tools and services in Firefox even easier.

Thanks so much for helping us improve Firefox!

[KellyClowers]

The local PDF image alt text generation is an example of a good and useful "AI" feature.
This "AI chatbot" stuff is a an example of a bad and stupid "AI" feature. Not many people want this, those that do can install an extension or something. The LLMs use too many resources, and for at best very little benefit. Most of the time there is no or even negative benefit. This is not something Mozilla should be using or promoting. Granted, it is a fad that will be over in a couple years anyway most likely, but even in the mean time you shouldn't be supporting it.

[ffffff]

Yes! I was so happy when I saw the alt text generation plans, because it was the first time any tech organization I follow announced a use of AI that not only was I not disappointed with, but was actually excited for. It showed that there are plenty yet unexplored and helpful use cases of AI that don't involve the endorsement and promotion of unethical big tech companies and their products.

[Mardak]

Would you expect Mozilla to do something similar to Common Voice and image-to-text training data but for LLMs?

[ffffff]

I don't know, Mardak. While the idea sounds beautiful in principle, as I mentioned in another comment, that feels dangerously close to a moonshot. Big data seems to be the name of the game, so I doubt Mozilla could ever hope to catch up to the big players who crawled all the internet. Expecting that feels unfair and akin to setting both parties up for disappointment, along with a hefty waste of resources.

[Mardak]

Are you saying a local LLM would be good or bad? Something optimized to use low resources for securely handling private data could have more benefit than existing chatbots for some users.

[gpiper]

AI is the opposite of "private" — if it is integrated, data WILL be used for it to learn, everywhere.

[Mardak]

If Firefox had integrated local LLM inference to power this AI chatbot feature, all the data you pass in for prompting and the generated responses could stay on your computer and not sent anywhere for learning. Would that be better for you?

You can get a similar behavior today by configuring this feature to use a local chatbot like https://llamafile.ai

[wutongtaiwan]

I also want Firefox to integrate a native LLM to make it more secure and private

[gpiper]

Nope. I don't want any part of any AI on my browser. It is evil. It will get smarter while our brains get dumber. It is literally a Mind Flayer.

[pod-person]

---

@Mardak wrote:

If Firefox had integrated local LLM inference to power this AI chatbot feature, all the data you pass in for prompting and the generated responses could stay on your computer and not sent anywhere for learning. Would that be better for you?

---

Yes, it would be better. Firefox has a reputation for having very strong standards for its users' privacy. By implementing the feature with cloud LLMs, you are eroding its ethos. Local is the only way and you need to put a lot of thought into how it'll be privacy-conscious and security-conscious for your users, all while making sure it's not getting in the way for users who don't want it. Microsoft is being absolutely flamed for their integration of AI into Windows because they didn't do any of these things. This feature should never have been shipped in the state it's in now, and you need to take a long time to think about these things I mentioned and how it can be implemented in the users' favor.

[pod-person]

I just got this feature in Firefox 130 and made an account specifically to post my feedback:

No.

I would like to know specifically who asked for this feature in its current state. There are problems others have stated here about quality issues and environmental issues of generative AI, which are all valid, but in my opinion, the bigger issue here is that you are integrating privacy-intrusive LLMs into a browser that has a good reputation for its strong privacy standards. In layman's terms, by implementing this, you are eroding the ethos of your browser. This is a recipe for disaster and you need to pivot ASAP. The fact that you are even throwing around ideas of integrating AI with people's browsing activity is not good if it's going to be with proprietary models that run in the cloud. You implemented this feature in a time when Microsoft is getting absolutely flamed for their integration of AI into Windows and their poor handling of it from a security and privacy standpoint. What you should have done is taken a step back after news of that broke and thought "How can we implement AI in a way that's not invasive to the privacy of our users and doesn't get in the way for users who don't want it?"

In my opinion, here is what needs to be done in order to right this wrong:

1. Remove functionality that connects to any chatbot not hosted on the user's own computer.
2. Implement a LLM that runs entirely locally on the user's PC. No exceptions.
3. Keep it OFF by default. If people want it, they'll know where to find it.
4. Once it's more tightly integrated into Firefox, give users absolute control over what data is being processed by the locally-run LLM. Keep the amount of data it processes minimal. People will be up in arms if you don't.

If these things are done, the AI people will be happy and the privacy people will be happy.

You need to fix this as soon as possible otherwise Firefox is going to get a metric ton of bad PR. This is a disaster in the making.

[Tsyoka]

If you are on a debian / apt machine, you can add a file to /etc/apt/preferences.d to revert and pin Firefox to version 129. Will either solve the problem or at least give you time to find other alternatives.

[pod-person]

How is that easier than just leaving the feature turned off?

[Tsyoka]

If the feature is present on the system, you need to monitor whether future updates will "magically" enable it against your will.  If the feature is never installed in the first place, that concern becomes a non-issue.

Aside from that, if there is a continuum between easy & convient vs private & secure, many of us will lean much further towards the security end of that spectrum.

I would also be wary of anyone trying to sell easy and convient.  They often don't fully understand the problem domain and are up to some shady marketing.

Refs:

• https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~cs50/Reading/NoSilverBullet.pdf
• https://mises.org/library/book/politics-obedience-discourse-voluntary-servitude

[pod-person]

The implication that staying with an older piece of software is more secure is laughable. By staying on 129, you would be missing out on security patches introduced from 130 onward. That much should be obvious, and yet you tout this as being more "secure".

Realistically, there are two ways you could be doing this if you wanted to do it right:

1. Use a fork that has this feature removed
2. Switch to an ESR release that comes from before 130

It's hypocritical to say that you want more security whilst deliberately running outdated software. Consider one of the above options and stop giving people advice that makes their systems worse.

[Jon]

Hey community,

Jumping in here real quick. We appreciate the feedback and activity in this thread, even (and often especially) when we're not in agreement, but please remember the Community Guidelines when posting to Connect. Be kind and show respect when sharing constructive criticism - this helps our discussions stay as productive as possible.

Hope this helps and feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

[feoh]

Hi Jon! Thanks for that. I agree that keeping the discourse civil and constructive is super important, and I do have a couple of questions which are intended to be helpful and illustrative for the folks who aren't holding torches and pitchforks 🙂

- How does this fit with Mozilla and Firefox's core values around consumer / user privacy?
- Might adding the option to at least use local LLMs running on the user's own machine help?

Thanks for providing this forum. Having a place to post feedback is indeed very helpful.

[Drewbahr]

Please, instead of considering your feelings, consider the resounding negative reception of this terrible idea. This is an instructive moment for you and your company.

[Ceropegiosity]

Tell us that you are synthesising a Frankenstein's monster and the villagers will bring out their pitchforks and torches. People have died from using "AI" generated foraging "books". The more this sad mimicry of human art and science is given credence by unthinking commercialisation, the more people will die. Either directly from lethal misinformation or from isolation from real human contact as the internet fills with fakery. It is already difficult to find real websites among the fakes.

[vincentj]

@JonMozilla has been showing disdain to the Firefox community for ages.  Firefox keeps rolling out hated changes and ignoring community feedback, and top-voted ideas have been ignored and unanswered for years at this point.

It's no surprise that you're getting disrespectful responses when Mozilla has been disrespecting our feedback for so long.  If you want healthy discussions, you can start by actually listening to our feedback and fixing the things that WE have been saying for years.

You won't get civility by enforcing community guidelines; you will get it by rebuilding your relationship with the community, and that starts by LISTENING and ACTING on our feedback.

[WriteThisWay]

Please don't. The lack of an environment-burning, content-stealing AI is half the reason I use Mozilla in the first place. I would honestly consider going back to Chrome (or even Edge) if you were to add any sort of AI features.

[TheEaterOfBeans]

PLEASE DO THIS I BEG YOU DON'T LET TUMBLR WIN

[TheEaterOfBeans]

**bleep** I FORGOT THIS WAS A REPLY

[TheEaterOfBeans]

oh it doesn't let me swear. ok. I know this now

[jahtnamas]

what are you talking about here re: "letting tumblr win" what do the decisions of a unrelated website have to do with firefox adding AI

edit: nvm, turns out you're a immature weirdo, hope you grow up soon and realize it's better to love as much as you can

[TheEaterOfBeans]

please I beg you. I found this from a Tumblr post and I NEED Tumblr to LOSE. I will start actually using your browser instead of having it on my taskbar and telling myself I'm going to switch and then never doing it if you just implement the useless AI button

[CharlieGoLight]

Cringe

[skulltaffy]

>found this from tumblr
>"I need tumblr to lose"

cringe, buddy.

[Kay-Kim]

Firefox, look. The people who want ai implemented aren’t even using your browser. They admit that the ai might MAYBE make them switch. The people who ACTUALLY use your browser are saying no.

Is it really worth it to alienate all your current users for people who MIGHT switch to your browser? Because the people who would come for ai are using the ai of other companies, and the people who DONT want ai are here, right now, making their displeasure known. Don’t lose what you have for the slim possibility that you’ll make back what you lose and than some.

And also, to the guy I’m replying to - if you hate tumblr so much and don’t use Firefox… why are you on tumblr looking at posts about Firefox, man. Go find something you like and enjoy it - it’ll make your life better.

[NightmareSwag]

So you're willing to drag an entire userbase down only for a website you don't like?

[sebkraemer]

It's sad that there are so many haters. I find it important to play around with the possibilities of AI in the browser so pleas keep thinking creatively, dear firefox team.

That being said, I find the experience quite limiting. I would have expected to being able to fully "interact" with the website instead of just passing a prompt plus some marked test into a form for me.

I.e. it could be nice maybe that if I use the AI prompt window from firefox, it will have the context of the website automatically and know about this as context (website content and the fact that it is being called from a browser and assisting me from there). So when I ask a question, it will know precisely what we are talking about. And how about handling images?

Keep it up!

[paulmwatson]

In no way do I want a baked in Firefox feature to send website context to a 3rd party system. We have extensions that can do that with user consent and control.

[hselaps]

Totally agree. The browser is basically an operating system within the operating system. Without AI support most of the internet won't be usable any longer and so integration of AI automation/ actions in the browser first hand would be great.
I love firefox and the privacy first attitude behind it and I want to see it prolong into the modern way of working.

[lackey]

What parts of the internet are you visiting that are unusable without AI?!

[Nobody_of_note]

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that can barely understand anything above a 6th grade reading level and need to have things dumbed down so they have a shot at understanding.

Not realizing how destructive that all is, is just part of their ignorance.

[probablywrong]

Just want to recommend that you all add DuckDuckGo's AI tool. It already allows you to select which AI you'd like to use, but it's private, doesn't contribute to training, and doesn't create a profile. It's just a better option in every way than any of the current ones offered here.

[argishure]

The problem is that they're only supporting the chatbots that allow the `?q=` parameter in their URL. ?q= can be used to pass text directly from the URL but sadly DuckAI doesn't support it.

See this

[probablywrong]

Appreciate the link, didn't know we could set custom ones. Yeah, I definitely see that passing along with the tooltip doesn't work but to be honest, most of the time when I'm highlighting text, it's not to ask AI something, it's just to copy it or something else mundane, so that's a feature I disabled anyway.

But having Duck.AI in my sidebar now and letting me open in it a panel is genuinely very helpful so I'm still super happy about it. Mozilla should really allow you to set any custom website to open in panels, not just pre-approved AI models.

[argishure]

Try the add-on Webpage Sidebar, it does just that and is very lightweight.

[tilwiti]

lol split screen