Share your feedback on the AI services experiment in Nightly

[asafko]

Hi folks, 

In the next few days, we will start the Nightly experiment which provides easy access to AI services from the sidebar. This functionality is entirely optional, and it’s there to see if it’s a helpful addition to Firefox. It is not built into any core functionality and needs to be turned on by you to see it. 

If you want to try the experiment, activate it via Nightly Settings > Firefox Labs (please see full instructions here). 

We’d love to hear your feedback once you try out the feature, and we’re open to all your ideas and thoughts, whether it’s small tweaks to the current experience or big, creative suggestions that could boost your productivity and make accessing your favorite tools and services in Firefox even easier.

Thanks so much for helping us improve Firefox!

[miclgael1]

Please see all other feature requests that are in limbo for years on this website. My view is this garbage interferes with those.

[Onibull]

Destroys the environment for one, steals peoples **bleep** (things they've worked hard to achieve, or even their jobs and faces) for another, and it is spreading misinformation in the way of 'answers.' Very plain answers. Perhapse look into why people are saying something is bad? There are loads of comments here talking about this stuff but either you're gonna try and say it doesn't matter or you'll actually look into things. (there is no don't like don't use with how this is being forced everywhere, 'but there's a button that says 'off and on' isn't helping anything)

[javiergcim]

I understand that your intentions are good, but here's the reality: generative AI cannot be uninvented. And for AI to become more energy-efficient and environmentally friendly, there has to be a very strong incentive, and that comes from being used.

AI is not just chatbots. It can also be used to solve the very problems being mentioned.

So yes, we need to be very responsible with the use of AI, but trying to discard or eradicate it is not only a completely disconnected idea from reality, it can't even end well.

In the end, I trust that, due to users' own selfish interests, the use of AI will eventually be restricted to what is truly useful, after the hype and the bubble. We need a high level of awareness about its use. Large information campaigns. But total denial of it is absurd.

[lackey]

That's like saying cars and roads can't be uninvented, and the only way to fix their environmental problems is to make more cars and add more lanes to our roads.

[MikeCerm]

We're not going back to a time when everyone walked everywhere. Cars and roads can't be uninvented, but we can mitigate the impact of cars and roads by replacing cars with ebikes and scooters. Right now, AI is in the cars-and-roads phase. Most people using it are using enormous models in the cloud that are massively overpowered because of the arms race that is occurring. This is a bubble that will burst, and when it does, it will be because of small-scale AI running locally, which doesn't have nearly the same impact.

[onionella]

Local computing is almost always more inefficient than computing done in huge, optimized servers. The impact is more dispersed, but it is still there.

[javiergcim]

No, it's not like saying that. Please set aside analogies that seem clever if you truly want to make an argument. It's not an argument. It's a parody, a joke. But it doesn't have an inch of depth.

Thank you.

[onionella]

People are not asking Mozilla to uninvent AI. They are asking Mozilla to not put that poop into the browser.

[waterskr]

I just made Firefox my default browser solely because it doesn't incorporate AI at all. Please don't add it -- I don't care if it's optional or not. I don't want it.

[Lexyo]

Why? what's the problem if it's just turned off?
A.I. is a revolution and if you don't want to embrace it you don't have to push away others from using it

[Nobody_of_note]

A revolution of what? 

Glorified auto complete, that is prone to hallucination and outright fabrication, powering through natural resources on its march to what... Give bad summaries to people who arent able to understand the source material?  Create bland images for people with no artistic talent? 

What use do you see that's revolutionary?

[lewismac]

Oh, wow, what a visionary critique! A revolution of what, you ask? Clearly, just a glorified autocomplete, huh? Because, obviously, the ability to instantly access and synthesize information from the entirety of human knowledge is just so... mundane.

Hallucination and fabrication, you say? Like how humans never make mistakes or spread misinformation, right? And those natural resources? Yeah, because no other industry or technology ever consumes resources for their "revolutionary" advancements.

Bad summaries, you mention? Oh, please, because everyone has the time and expertise to read every piece of literature in existence. And those bland images? How dare we assist those without "artistic talent" – art should be gatekept, of course!

What use is revolutionary? I guess only if it fits your narrow view of what revolution should look like. But hey, thanks for the insightful commentary on how we're just spinning our digital wheels here. Bravo.

[Nobody_of_note]

I think we both agree you are the one making extraordinary claims and backing it with nothing but marketing blurbs. 

You've shown you have no desire to back up what you say, so this'll be the last I respond to you.

[lackey]

AI is destroying the environment. How do I "opt out" of that? Just because you support corporate profits over human well-being doesn't mean I want to share in the resulting misery. 

[Nobody_of_note]

People like that, the ones that try to dunk on you by using AI slop, not realizing that what came out said nothing, are not capable of seeing the relationship.  Their toy does their analysis, conclusion, and gives text that if you don't read it critically, can fool you into thinking these have any kind of intelligence.

Leaving those of us that care to try to continue the fight.

[lewismac]

Yeap you caring guys just keep on fighting. I'm sure you'll win, like Kodak did, and Blockbuster. You guys are like the coal miners, resisting the fight for cleaner energy.

[lewismac]

LOL "AI is destroying the environment". Which environment is AI destroying? Can you name one? And how exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that I "support corporate profits over human well-being" ?

The only environment AI appears to be destroying is the one between your ears.

[lackey]

Which environment is AI destroying? Can you name one? 

Earth's. Look up AI's impact on carbon output and drinkable water usage. I am not interested in being part of the fallout for something you personally like. 

[Dandelion44]

Reading replies... I just noticed how firefox employee replies to those who like AI near instant. But when someone disagrees with AI, no response from them.

[SoliTheFox]

When most of the replies show people see the word "AI" and instantly hate on it without even understanding how the feature actually works, yeah, that's what's gonna happen...

I've seen so many replies that are simply "I hate AI, take it out or else gonna leave Firefox" and replies that clearly show that people don't even know **bleep** about what they are actually talking about, I would be surprised if he is even reading the comments anymore.

[Dandelion44]

You just trying to make AI haters look like stupids. Yeah we exactly know what we are talking about. Did ChatGPT wrote this reply for you?

[SoliTheFox]

Then explain me how the feature works.

Or show me the source code of it, and tell me where exactly "AI" is being trained, or used for inference using the user's resources. I already found the source code for you: https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/components/genai/GenAI.sys.mjs

[nokko]

The complaint about using up system resources is incorrect. However, the ethical concern over tacitly approving the unauthorized scraping of web pages on a mass scale is what most people are riled up about.

[SoliTheFox]

I can completely see this point and also the ambiental aspect point. Somewhat agree myself.

But I really do not think most people understand how the feature actually works. Really feels like people think this feature is actually scraping your data, from the browser, unless you completely remove it from the source code. Feels like people are just putting everything "AI" on the same box and hating on it for the sake of hating, when it can be good specially when it is not used as a source of information, and mindfully. For example, I use open weights models to summarize stuff or check if a certain page contains what I actually want to know about. I do not trust it 90% of the time, as it can hallucinate.

It also can also be improved ethically. For example, The Stack dataset allows you to check if your repo was scraped, and to fill in a form to remove your repository from it.

[doodlemancy]

---

@SoliTheFox wrote:

For example, I use open weights models to summarize stuff or check if a certain page contains what I actually want to know about. I do not trust it 90% of the time, as it can hallucinate.

---

I'm sorry, but why are you using a "tool" that you apparently can't trust 90% of the time? You're double-checking its work anyway. 🙃 It sounds like you're actually making more work for yourself.

You know what can't hallucinate? Ctrl + F.

[SoliTheFox]

Can ctrl-f summarize entire pages?

Can ctrl-f read an entire page in 2 seconds and tell me if my super specific problem is covered inside the page? Or should i prefer to ctrl+f through all of the 72 ocurrences of the word (8 of them on the same paragraph) related to what i'm looking for in order to get what i want?

Can ctrl+f merge all of the code blocks into one so i can actually figure out in 2 seconds if i'm reading the pytorch documentation all over again, written with different words, or something that will actually be new for me?

Idk, ctrl+f seems really easier to use and more powerful when you know exactly what phrase to look for to go straight to where it covers what you want. Also, 90% of the times is not even necessary to check anything if you are using 8b models instead of 2b models. Smaller models hallucinate more frequently, but they also give me an instant answer.

And honestly, there's a reason why people prefer rendering html instead of reading the raw file, even though rendering a webpage is extra work. Ease of use is important.

[SoliTheFox]

And it really do seems like your own words apply to you:

"The dismissiveness and arrogance with which you responded to this [...] person, who gave you their ...

[Dandelion44]

I do not have to tell you anything but if this means you shut up afterwards, then here we go:

What AI (ChatGPT, Cladue, others) is just an improved version of autocompletion.

Where exactly AI being trained: Many text on internet, including copyrighted content and code, it's used as soon as OpenAI is able to web-scrape it.

Also, you don't scare me when you show me code snippet of what you find over open-source projects, another funny thing is that the code you show is UI of Firefox's AI integration, nothing actually related to AI itself.

[SoliTheFox]

Ok bozo, make the argument about "AI" in general when we are discussing the Firefox feature here. Considering your response, it seems you either have serious problems of text interpretation, or you are misinterpreting my response in bad faith. Any chatbot can help you with that tho, unfortunately we are left with just your intelligence here.

I repeat my question again: where is the new Firefox feature being trained on user's data? Does the inference use any computer resources from the user? What are we discussing on this thread: "AI" in general, or the new Firefox feature?

Like i said, all i want is you to show me how this feature is actually bad other than the "moral high ground" arguments. After all, you guys want this removed, so i wonder how it is actually a bad feature that worsens the user's experience. Does it make your computer any slower? Does it have any glitch or bug that affects other areas of the browser? Is your experience less smooth now in terms of UI/UX? Does it pop up everytime you use ur browser? I ask this because, like i said in my initial comment, i've seen many people claim this.

[argishure]

DuckDuckGo AI Chat please🙏🏻 It has 4 models built-in, doesn't require an account and is the only one which doesn't save chats. Can access Claude3H, Mixtral8x7B, Llama3.1(70B), GPT4o-mini all without an account.

Also, pretty private, people's սdders might calm down a little. (I cannot remove the bold dk why)

[Nobody_of_note]

Privacy isn't the only reason some of us have our udders all a flutter.  Also that's pretty insulting.

You might try reading more and stop relying on destructive services that clearly aren't helping your comprehension.

Look into the environmental impact of these toys, you are contributing to the damage we are doing to the planet.  Damage our children and their children have to try to survive.

[argishure]

Since you're going down that path, why don't we first ban all of TikTok, Reels, Shorts, artificial adult content and any other brain-rot that doesn't benefit humanity? These require hoards of servers that waste computational power.

Shouldn't we all stop eating non-veg because of its environmental impact (& ofcourse the horrible suffering)? It clearly doesn't have much of a benefit since atleast 30% of India (276mil people) seem to be doing fine.

AI has its positives & negatives as everything else. It's in its very early stages, can be hosted locally which consumes a lot less power, will get more efficient with time and will only require lesser power as hardware with better neural training abilities will emerge.

All the big corps aren't brainless to be chasing AI's heinie, they've thought about this a lot more than you. As we advance, any new tech that comes into play will eat up a good amount of energy.

[lackey]

Part 1: whataboutism. Mozilla isn't handing out free McDonald's vouchers, but they are enticing users into harmful crap. Mozilla says they are better than harmful crap. 

Part 2: Big Tech knows best: if you believe this, Google and Microsoft have your back

[argishure]

1) Bruh it's not whataboutism, I'm literally saying everything has its upsides & downsides. Mozilla's enticing nobody, they're just making it more accessible (pretty similar to abortion rights lol). People can try & decide for themselves to see if they find it to be useful or some harmful crap.

2) The heII are you on about. They are not getting any money exploiting us through AI or something, it's literally all their own expense, their own money. They're obviously doing this cuz it will help in their org's growth, we all know they do everything for themselves, and AI everything is for themselves too.

3) Where's this debate going tho? Anything common we both agree on? I'd be fine with this being an add-on with good customizability.

[Visnes]

1) AI has absolutely no upsides, and the only arguments I've ever seen from people who disagree with that are whataboutisms. Just because other bad stuff exists doesn't mean we have to introduce other bad stuff just because.

2) If you don't pay for it, you are the product.

3) Use another browser like Chrome or Edge.

[argishure]

1) You don't find it to be of your use doesn't mean it doesn't have any upsides. LLMs can hold context and they become incredibly useful when translating text like stories since it can translate the next line with the previous line & other key points of the story as its context. It is being used as an RPGM translator right now and the results are a lot better than traditional (google) translators albeit it is not on par with human translators as of yet. But (i) It translates better than google (ii) It translates a LOT faster than humans since it is automated (iii) Achieves a balance b/w speed & quality.
1.1) ChatGPT saves a lot of time for college students to complete the useless assignments they're assigned which aren't even checked. (Atleast in my country they're of no importance).
1.2) Github copilot makes code debugging heӏӏa easier.
1.3) If it is being used by general population, that means they like it and they don't have to explain what it is they like about it to you.

1) Why do you find it to be bad again? Because of environment? And how would jumping ship to Chromium help prevent that? People can decide for themselves if they find it to be useful, you are no one to dictate what they're allowed to use.

2) And you're not the product since you're not using it so be happy?

3) Use another browser like Brave or Tor or Librewolf. Also, checked out your profile and you've mentioned in another reply to make this an add-on. Why are you suddenly disagreeing?

[majesticmini471]

I strongly agree with both of you. Is it not why we need to create our own legal services? My team is on the verge to help users do so, not to be dominated by big-wigs.

[lackey]

You should consider your own words. According to you, ChatGPT is for creating things that nobody is supposed to read:

"ChatGPT saves a lot of time for college students to complete the useless assignments they're assigned which aren't even checked."

That's so depressingly cynical. We are destroying the environment for something that has no function except to take up space. You might as well randomly generate words.

"Also, checked out your profile and you've mentioned in another reply to make this an add-on."

That is a bit creepy. But there is a big difference between allowing users to optionally install something, and installing something for users and showing them only a tiny selection of options while intentionally hiding the on-device one. 

[argishure]

---

According to you, ChatGPT is for creating things that nobody is supposed to read.

---

1. Yes, right now AI words are easily detectable specially in a country where English is not the 1st language. And hence it is being used to create material which seems unique and thus save people's time.
2. You know something else students use ChatGPT for? Studying. Provide it multiple texts it organizes them really well for you.
3. So you just ignored the part where it is actually being used right now for providing quality translations really fast? People read those translations lackey. And that's just one major application that I'm aware of because I actively use it.

So no, it not used ONLY for creating things that nobody is supposed to read, but it might as well be used for it now because it saves people's time. Not everything has to be of top-notch quality, and not every human generation is top-notch.

That is a bit creepy.

---

Sure preach up your moral high ground.

---

But there is a big difference between allowing users to optionally install something, and installing something for users

---

I literally said I'm absolutely fine with this being an add-on🤦🏻Visnes was the one who backed out on his words. In one of his replies he said that this should be made an add-on but when I mentioned the same he disagreed and told me to change browsers.

Btw, here are some anecdotes for you of general population finding chatbots really useful.

[jlries61]

Point 1.1 looks like bad old fashioned anti-intellectualism to me.  The irony is were it not for many decades of research by computer scientists and statisticians (aka intellectuals), there would be no AI.