Feedback after initial setup and first use

[addohm]

I, like many I presume, and desparately trying to escape the Microsoft and\or Apple ecosystem.  As of about the past year, the outlook app on Android has gotten so bad, that I've finally decided to reach out and try some new apps for managing both browsing and email.  Firefox and Thunderbird seemed like a perfect fit.  They're both very well received by linux distrubutions, which is a big plus for me, but anything said here will be from the lens of using within Windows 11.  I just want to provide a bit of feedback.  I was honestly looking to donate, but I want to get this out there first.

1) The setup is really not very streamlined after the first mailbox.  You really have to go looking for how to add additional mailboxes.  I got lucky and found it but I was very close to googling it.

2) On the subject of google, holy moly is there _a lot_ of old and outdated information out there on Thunderbird.  Really almost not even worth googling.  I know you can't control what pops up on google completely, but you certainly could maintain a completely relevent and up to date wiki or something that sticks out on google searches.

3) The UI - I like it.  Its 2024 and it looks and kinda feels 2024.  I think my biggest gripe with the UI is that you find yourself repeating actions a lot for multiple mailboxes, especially in terms of layout.  Your programmers will know.  There are always methods programmers use to _not_ repeat code because it is just annoying to set up and maintain.  Strangely still, its not always the same repeated actions across each account - but nonetheless it would be really nice to have one unified control over layout.

4) On the subject of unified, one thing I can genuinely say I really really miss is having one unified mailbox.  I did lots of digging and there are old and new ways of doing this with Thunderbird but all seem very specific to pop3 which is really specific these days.  Id like to see a truly unified inbox.

5) The reading pane is a pain.  Why vertical and narrow instead of horizontal I have to ask, but then when I see the way you display inbox content, I can see why.  It's really forced.  I feel like I have to fully open each email to get full context, which is pretty outdated these days.

6) More control over the layout, or just more effencient layout is needed.  Table view is old, but efficient.  Cards view is the opposite.  My preference would be more akin to Outlook, a slender card view list on the left and a large reading pane on the right.  The current iteration of card view has soo much wasted space, its totally doable.

Go easy on me trolls, its my first day truly using Thunderbird.  I am sure I missed some things or some things can be solved, but they shouldn't be so hard to solve.  I want to keep using it (and Firefox) as my new ecosystem.  It's definetly the best I've tried so far.  How is gmail on the top of the android list of mail apps?  I don't know, but I suspect Thunderbird for android will be amazing, especially if we can get it more inline with effecient use and control of work space.

[wsmwk]

Thank you for posting.  In no particular order.

4) Unified certainly exists and is well documented https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/switching-folder-pane-view

6) I believe for new users both cards view and vertical layout are the default. Are they not for you?  If not, they are easily changed https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-115-supernova-faq#w_how-do-i-get-the-thunderbird-11...

5) Which of the three available layouts (Classic, Wide, Vertical) is your preference? 

3) Which specific actions do you find yourself repeating?

1) and 2) thank you for pointing this out.

[addohm]

Well that was an annoyance.  I had a fleshed out reply to you and the login process ate it.  So, now you get the short version and most relevant points.

1(4) I appreciate the link and will play with it.  It already seems more "comfortable".

3(5) I think I have grown accustomed to my own layout customizations so this one is on me really, but still stands to make a point.  My typical outlook layout is really handy, I'll try to describe it.

column a) split ~80% inboxes ~20% month calendar, column b) cards, column c is split - top) 7-day view calendar, bottom) preview pane.

With the unified view, it feels much better, but the strict 4 columns feels like something is always getting squished no matter how I adjust it.  I could close "events" but then I wouldn't get any calendar view at all.

4(3) having enabled a unified view is a perfect example of this.  Now in the unified view I have to go into each and every mailbox and folder and re-establish how I want things to be sorted.  When I was in table view it was worse because not only did I have to do that, but I also had to reorganize\add\remove columns for every mailbox and folder.

You're welcome Wayne, and I hope to be more of a positive contributor here.

p.s. I saw k-9 doesn't allow the use of free email accounts e.g. hotmail, so I can't use it.  Is thunderbird for android going to be the same?  Will it feel more like thunderbird on windows?  Sadly the whole reason I am on this expedition of exploration of new ecosystems is because I need it to extend into android and linux.

[wsmwk]

> the strict 4 columns feels like something is always getting squished no matter how I adjust it. I could close "events" but then I wouldn't get any calendar view at all.

You can close that event's column and instead access the full calendar view by clicking the calendar icon in the spaces toolbar, far left, third from the top.

> p.s. I saw k-9 doesn't allow the use of free email accounts e.g. hotmail, so I can't use it. 

I'm not sure this is true.  Suggest you try the beta which can be found in the Play Store.

[jevangelho]

p.s. I saw k-9 doesn't allow the use of free email accounts e.g. hotmail, so I can't use it.  Is thunderbird for android going to be the same?  Will it feel more like thunderbird on windows?  Sadly the whole reason I am on this expedition of exploration of new ecosystems is because I need it to extend into android and linux.

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You can absolutely use free accounts like Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail with K-9 Mail! 

I believe Hotmail uses OAuth2 now, so you'll just need to go through an extra step to grant app access to your account.

https://docs.k9mail.app/en/6.400/accounts/add/

[jevangelho]

@addohmThank you for taking the time out of your day to share the pain points you experienced as a first-time Thunderbird user -- especially after already spending lots of time with the setup and searching for solutions.

I'm in the beginning stages of outlining a video series that will walk new users through the process of setting up Thunderbird, adding accounts and add-ons, getting it configured to best suit your preferences, and generally exposing a lot of the hidden (or poorly located) features that make using Thunderbird awesome. So your feedback is timely, and very valuable to me. Which means it's ultimately going to benefit a lot of people, so thanks!

Your #2 point about outdated info -- last year we hired Roland, a User Support Specialist, and he's been working hard to update a lot of those old support articles, but it's going to take some time. I just wanted you to know we're aware of the problem and taking gradual steps to chip away at what Roland calls "documentation debt."

Anyway, I want you to know you've been heard, and I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Thanks!

[addohm]

Thanks @jevangelho.  I discovered the alt menu today and that opened up a lot of things for me to play around with.  I had no idea it was there.  The old relic of an idea from early Windows days of pressing alt to access a menu.  It will live on and remain a priceless secret tool 😄

[jevangelho]

Nice! Yea, Thunderbird can be ridiculously powerful, but surfacing that power can be tricky sometimes...

I also wanted to let you know there's an improved version of the Cards View coming! This post on our UX mailing list goes into detail and has a great mock-up you can check out.

And we'll never turn down beta testers, so if you're interested in seeing some of those changes already in effect, Thunderbird Beta might be worth checking out.

Have a great one,
Jason

[Kirito丶城]

我再补充一点，Firefox 的账户体验非常差，割裂感很强。浏览器、社区、插件中心都是独立的账户，如果可以像微软、Google那样统一为一个账户体验上会有质的飞跃。

I would like to add that the account experience on Firefox is very poor, with a strong sense of fragmentation. The browser, community, and plugin center are all independent accounts, and if they can be unified into one account like Microsoft and Google, there will be a qualitative leap in the experience.

[rtanglao]

Regarding documentation debt my favourite subject :-), we have

1. over 5 years where there was nobody taking a holistic view of the knowledge base (KB) articles on support.mozilla.org aka SUMO
2. over 150 SUMO KB  articles
3. of those 150 most are out of date with respect to screenshots and simple but confusing things like to name just a few examples: the hamburger menu and Settings instead of Preferences on macOS
4. Love it if folks could help out even if it screenshots or a google doc or a public wiki page with thoughts on edits to articles; no need to learn support.mozilla.org markup i.e. get in where you fit in :-). Here is my audit of the articles, Thunderbird KB Audit Version 2 and here is the list of github kb issues: again you don't have to use google drive or sheets or github kb issues if you don't want to 🙂 Email article suggestions and edits to roland AT thunderbird.net if google drive or github are not your jam or message me in matrix @rolandthunderbird:mozilla.org preferably in #thunderbird:matrix.org