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MarkinIdaho
Making moves
Status: New idea

When is Mozilla going to establish a worthwhile accessibility department and forum?

The changes since Quantum keep reducing accessibility to the disabled. The colors, shades, contrast, shadows, and removal of all delineation lines between tabs, bookmarks, and such create a very problematic GUI.

Why does Mozilla not address these issues in Firefox ?

10 Comments
Status changed to: New idea
Jon
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hey @MarkinIdaho

You're in the right place for these types of discussions. One of the areas we're actively gathering ideas/feedback on is accessibility, which is why we created that predefined label. Posts like these will be shared with our internal teams, so please continue the conversation and be detailed with any constructive criticism.

Thanks for this post! It is now open to others for votes (kudos) and comments.

vincentj
Making moves

Agreed, I find the new tab/title bar incredibly difficult to use.  I can't tell when the window is active or not because it doesn't change color, and I can't identify the selected tab because there is no contrast.  It's forcing me to stay on older versions of Firefox on all my computers because the new design is so hard to use, but now that's putting my security at risk because I can't update.

MarkinIdaho
Making moves

OK, Let's get started at the top. The FEVHBTH bar has shadows in the background. This makes the text difficult to read.

The Tabs bar has these same shadows and no lines delineating the individual tabs, just an X wandering is space.Plus, NO connection to the page being viewed other than a change of color then a address bar and bookmark bar. Web pages with tabs on bottom connect the web page to the tab.

The Tool Bar was screwed over when Quantum was released. You took away the option of Icons with Text. Icons/images with Text is a required feature as part of US DOJ ADA-WCAG statute. 

Icons are everywhere with no text to define them.

Do you know what Visual Agnosia is? It is when the brain does not make a connection between objects/images/icons and a text based concept. HOME is a text based concept. An image of a old school building (building-could be house-could be home, too many thought steps) has no connection to HOME. Three years of trying to retrain my brain and I still have to stopping to look for the icon that is interpreted as HOME. With Icons with text, I clicked on HOME without even thinking. The printer image is easier to translate. The < and > and circle illustrate a function but these images are still much slower than text. 

And, Don't tell me to pause my cursor over the icon to wait to get a drop down definition. That is not a legal reasonable accommodation and interrupts train of thought.

When I have to stop my thought process to interpret Icons, I can quickly get lost.

And, NO, I am not stupid or learning disabled. I am highly intelligent (top 10% at a minimum) with some visual processing disabilities. Many on the autistic spectrum have these or similar struggles.

I also have a severe memory dysfunction so learning/memorizing new processes is a challenge (Three years trying to tell my brain a old school house means Home.)

When I have to interrupt my thoughts to sort out the meaning of Icons, I often forget what I was doing. Think of the frustration of "Why did I walk into this room?" Then, you go back to where you were before to try to remember why you went into the supply room. 10 minutes later and Oh, I needed a pad of Post It Notes. Yeah, Try living 24/7 like that because inconsiderate people refuse to follow the ADA-WCAG statute and make Text under Icons an option. Any interruption while going to the supply room (forgot the key, said high to a coworker who tells you something new) makes the "Why did I come in here worse. The same goes for "What Icon gets me to my home page where [SEARCH] is?"

btw, I routinely quiz people about the meaning of the small circle with a straight tail at 4 o'clock in the upper right of many web pages. 99% have no idea what it means. You know. The stupid image of a magnifying glass that is supposed to mean Search.... A telescope or binoculars would be closer to search. A magnifying glass means magnify.  So, YES, unless people are trained to understand what some icons mean, even people with healthy brains can struggle to make sense of the icon.

And, WHY is the type in 60-70% shaded black, actually a gray?

What is the shield, purse, box with 3 lines, star, V in a half circle, three horizontal lines, ......?

Let's discuss these issues. I know others have more.

 

rolandw
Making moves

It is not just the disabled that have issues. For quite a few versions (ie years), I have lobbied for better contrast in the Firefox UI. Every website checker will tell you when your page has too low contrast making it hard to read yet the Firefox UI continues to get worse and worse. Yes, you can use the theme tools to modify it but do you know how to make the current tab stick out or how to make the tab title readable when you have multiple tabs open in the window? It has taken me almost as long as I have been lobbying for this to actually find out how to achieve what I would think is even vaguely acceptable and I have no visual impairment other than being over 50... Higher contrast should be there by default.

A post in one of the other Mozilla forums received many hundreds of likes and comments yet nothing happened and Mozilla's UI designers fail to show any real evidence that they have ever read Laurel, Tog or Norman whose texts, though now decades old, still explain why the very basics of interaction design will hold true for quite some time yet.

MarkinIdaho
Making moves

When I tried to start these discussion in the prior FF community, the post would be posted then deleted within a few days.

Firefox has been working hard to earn the nickname that puts a u where the o is in fox. Firef_x.

Firefox is better than this.

Just because Google Chrome and MS Edge are ignorant of accessibility issues does not mean Mozilla should be.

Jon
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hey @MarkinIdaho , thanks for bringing up these important topics. These are exactly the types of conversations we want to have here in this community. And since the Accessibility label is already one of the most-used here in Mozilla Connect, I am inviting a Product Manager from the Firefox Accessibility team to host an upcoming discussion on the topic. In the meantime, let's keep this conversation going and we will be sure to share the post to our teams.

Burgh
Making moves

I am having trouble seeing the scroll bar and the little up and down arrows at the top and bottom of the scroll bar. Is there a way to fix it?


I agree with all of the above comments as to accessibility for us vision challenged people. I need the toolbar to have bigger, darker font.

Burgh
Making moves

The scroll bar is too narrow and the little arrows at top and bottom are almost invisible.

The bookmarks toolbar font is too light and small.

 

Burgh
Making moves

When I click the three bars on the upper right, the drop down menu and much of what's in it is so tiny I can barely see it. Using Zoom doesn't change it.

Jon
Community Manager
Community Manager

@Burgh thanks for this valuable feedback! We are currently hosting a discussion with a Product Manager from the Firefox Accessibility team aboutTaking Firefox Accessibilty to the Next Level and we'd love to invite you to join the conversation there, if you wish.