topic Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox in Discussions

Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

AshleyT — Sat, 01 Mar 2025 17:08:36 GMT

For the first time, we’re introducing a Terms of Use for Firefox, alongside an updated Privacy Notice.

Earlier today, we published a blog post explaining why we’re making this change and what it means for you.

Now, we want to hear from you.

We’re committed to engaging with our community and keeping you informed about how we build Firefox—and why we make the decisions we do. Firefox wouldn’t be where it is today without the support of our users, and we want to continue working together to build a better internet for all.

To kick off the discussion, here are a few key points from the blog post:

Transparency matters. We’re introducing a Terms of Use to provide clarity on what users agree to before starting to browse.
Privacy remains a priority. Our updated Privacy Notice gives a more detailed, easy-to-read explanation of our data practices.
You stay in control. Firefox is designed to respect user choice, with responsible defaults and simple tools to manage your data.

We’d love to hear your thoughts! Check out the full blog post and share your feedback here. If you have any questions, let us know—we’ll be actively monitoring the discussion and will reply where we can.

Update

Thank you all for taking the time to share your questions and reactions. We’ve been listening and made some updates to address areas of concern. I’ve started a new discussion topic covering what’s changed in the Terms of Use based on your feedback, and clearing up a few points of confusion.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

jkaelin — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 21:14:30 GMT

You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

This sounds like a clear violation of:

Principle 4 - Individuals’ security and privacy on the internet are fundamental and must not be treated as optional.

It also sounds like boilerplate AI harvesting language. If this is intended specifically for the AI chatbot, that needs to be clearly carved out, and not included in the general terms.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

0x4261756D — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 23:56:59 GMT

Why would Mozilla need a license for the information a user enters into Firefox? There should be no exchange of information with any service of Mozilla necessary upon entering information or uploading media somewhere, unless of course that somewhere is a Mozilla website.

I am deeply disturbed by the possible implications of this ToU document and will be actively searching for an alternative to Firefox unless this is changed.

It is quite sad seeing Mozilla repeatedly alienating their core userbase and ruining the only sufficiently advanced alternative to the Chromium monopoly.

Best regards,

a not angry, just very disappointed Firefox-user

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Quackles — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 00:27:50 GMT

Something I'm confused about. I see the terms links to the Acceptable Use Policy.

If Mozilla plans to enforce that for users of Firefox, how does it intend to determine if users are violating the policy while protecting privacy?

If not, why is it in there? The terms make it sound like it applies to the Firefox browser itself.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:28:41 GMT

"Privacy remains a priority": Every company tells us something to the effect that "We value your privacy".... while they collect and sell our data.

"You stay in control" : Every company tells us something like this... while they bury "opt out" mechanisms for features we don't know we need to opt out of about three screens deep.

Ordinary people ARE NOT LAWYERS. And we cannot read and actually understand massive blocks of legal jargon constantly presented to us during the course of operating a device. Unfortunately, every company today has discovered that they can bury a fifty page long legal document in a link on any app or website and people will click "OK" to it our of a sense of learned helplessness. That is part of the reason some of us prefer open source software.

One of the worst things all such services contain are provisions like this one: "Every once in a while, Mozilla may decide to update these Terms. We will post the updated Terms online. We will take your continued use of Firefox as acceptance of such changes. We will post an effective date at the top of this page to make it clear when we made our most recent update"

This is basically saying that every single time I use Firefox, it's apparently my job to go look up your terms of service and determine if they have changed since the last time I used it, and see if I am still OK with the new terms.

Your "Acceptable use" for terms for FireFox raise all kinds of issues. A person in some countries might find themselves doing something that would violate your "Acceptable use" for FireFox because they are living under an oppressive regime which makes things like exercise free speech illegal, just as one example.

Some FireFox users in the US might now be in a similar situation. We are at the very least about to lose most or all of the few consumer protections we had. But also some might now have a lot more to worry about than targeted advertising. Think of scenarios like a whistleblower talking to a reporter, a protester organizing a rally, or someone trying to order abortion medication online.

What do not want a vague warm fuzzy but legally meaningless statement that you "value our privacy". What we want is a GUARANTEE that you won't share or sell our data. Mozilla previously promised me that your product had "no shady privacy notices or advertiser backdoors". But if I am reading the privacy policy correctly, data collected by FireFox might be used to serve up ads to us. I was previously promised by Mozilla that there would be no sneaky back doors for advertisers. So are you asking permission for this, or forgiveness?

Thank you

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:29:39 GMT

Google deprecated Manifest 2 (yesterday, for a lot of people), crippling uBlock Origin and similar extensions, giving Firefox its first real chance in years to reclaim users interested in privacy and ad blocking. So as its first official act Mozilla decides to go business-school bureaucratic and give itself our data for training an AI (or whatever money-making purpose they feel like this week). Of all the boneheaded mistakes Mozilla has been guilty of in the past decade or so, all the slap-in-the-face insults visited upon users, this has to be right at the top. Unbelievable. Mozilla account cancelled. I'm done.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

fraggedy_andy — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 02:32:49 GMT

You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

How long do you hold those rights to our data? Is it the length of a search? 90 days? Indefinitely? This is written in a way that feels vague, threatening to personal privacy, and in a way that obfuscates all of the details I would want to know to comfortably use Firefox.

Firefox is proving again to be terrible at messaging. All this seems to have done is to spook your community. I've read the statement, I've read other comments on the statement, and each person seems to have a different interpretation. And this feels like it came out of nowhere. Was this discussed in some blog post before it was released? How many of your users do you think actually read those?

It feels like Mozilla keeps making the same mistakes over and over, making changes without doing more public outreach to build user trust in the changes. How are we supposed to trust you or that you have our best interests?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

KelsonV — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 02:52:09 GMT

Mozilla and/or Firefox has no good reason to ask for a license for user content except when interacting with Mozilla sites or services, and even then it should be clear that's what we're doing.

You want a license to display my reply to this forum post? Sure! That makes sense!

You want a license to something I wrote in an email while logged into webmail though Firefox? That looks like it would be covered by the current wording, and that's NOT ACCEPTABLE.

If, as your blog post claims, you intend to put users' privacy first, fix your terms of service so they actually *do*.

Using Firefox with a third-party site or service should *never* give Mozilla a license to that activity or content. And using a Mozilla service should only grant a license for uses the user would *expect* -- not potential hidden reuse sometime down the line.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

reconbot — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 03:33:18 GMT

If you’re not going to use the stuff I put into the primary application on my computer that I use to communicate with everyone in my life, to create art, write stories, and share photos and video, then why are you taking a license to use it however you want? Just in case?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

indutny — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 03:53:30 GMT

Licensing your information to a company should be an individual user's choice, period. Blanket and implicit (because most users won't read or hear about ToS) abandonment of user information rights towards any corporation is not just unacceptable, but immoral. In the unfortunate age of LLMs we already see our own data being abused against us and used to empower all encompassing Surveillance Economy. Firefox's primary public image is of a company fighting for Privacy and against Browser monopoly. By destroying user's trust in both, you are destroying the only viable alternative to Chromium based browsers. Is that really in the best interests of your users?

Additionally, Terms of Service imply the right to refuse the service to a user, and in fact there is a Termination section describing that: "Mozilla can suspend or end anyone’s access to Firefox at any time for any reason". As a backbone of free web, why would you choose to deny access to not just browser, but websites and other service that the user access with them and might not be able to access otherwise (e.g. if they have their password stored and managed by Firefox)?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Maupertuis — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 05:58:41 GMT

I hoped exiting of Mitchell Baker would drive some sense home to the C-suite, and maybe, just maybe they'd re-think about the position that they've been taking for the past decade. But I also know that I have higher chance of encountering a unicorn than Mozilla fixing, or at the very least, not going further down this path.

Why do you need a ToS? I'm just using your browser. Clearly state that it's for your other online services(including Mozilla account), and not the browser. Don't do legal jargon.

There are lots of other things that are of much higher priority, this is not one of them.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

tom25519 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:49:07 GMT

I have some questions after I read an another article about this:

1. Does it mean it will be collect information for ad?

2. ~~Does it mean if a songwriter/composer use Firefox to upload it toa website, and it equal user grant the right that Firefox could use it?~~

Edit: Q2 has been declared in https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-news/firefox-terms-of-use/

UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Isotopp — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:06:32 GMT

I am using Firefox for two reasons, only: uBlock origin (MANIFEST V2) and privacy. They are mission critical.

I would like to see a build of Firefox with no AI – it adds zero value – that prioritizes privacy and does not upload data to Firefox ever, under any circumstances, except when I authorize that (for example, in a crash dialog). A browser that works that way and has no such features is more valuable than a browser that adds useless features and suddenly requires ToU and uploads data into foreign countries.

This is becoming more important every day the US of A slides deeper into fascism.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Maddy1 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:06:21 GMT

Unethical. You’ve given me the task this weekend of migrating my bookmarks and leaving your browser.

A total disappointment to your users, community members who’ve crafted custom add-ons and themes, and to clients of service providers using Firefox. Parasite status unlocked.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 12:15:49 GMT

With respect to the statement: You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet.

"acting on your behalf" sounds incredibly broad. This could be construed to mean that we are giving FireFox permission to make purchases or do things with potential legal implications "on our behalf".

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Cvh-123 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 12:46:52 GMT

Absolutely essential to immediately adjust that clause on giving Mozilla a licence for content uploaded through Firefox. A blog post clarification does not cut it because that no legal standing. The terms themselves need to be clear.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 12:57:44 GMT

From https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/acceptable-use/ (emphasis added)

You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to:

Do anything illegal or otherwise violate applicable law,
Threaten, harass, or violate the privacy rights of others; send unsolicited communications; or intercept, monitor, or modify communications not intended for you,
Harm users such as by using viruses, spyware or malware, worms, trojan horses, time bombs or any other such malicious codes or instructions,
Deceive, mislead, defraud, phish, or commit or attempt to commit identity theft,
Engage in or promote illegal gambling,
Degrade, intimidate, incite violence against, or encourage prejudicial action against someone or a group based on age, gender, race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, disability, geographic location or other protected category,
Exploit or harm children,
Sell, purchase, or advertise illegal or controlled products or services,
Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that includes graphic depictions of sexuality or violence,
Collect or harvest personally identifiable information without permission. This includes, but is not limited to, account names and email addresses,
Engage in any activity that interferes with or disrupts Mozilla’s services or products (or the servers and networks which are connected to Mozilla’s services),
Violate the copyright, trademark, patent, or other intellectual property rights of others,
Violate any person’s rights of privacy or publicity,

Just with respect to the items I have highlighted....

- Mozilla is going to determine whether things I write "deceive or mislead"? I am not "pro deception" per se, but that sounds incredibly broad.

- Gambling is legal in some areas and not legal in others.

- "purchase, or advertise illegal or controlled products or services" It is not illegal to purchase "controlled substances". Many products and services like Tobacco, Alcohol, firearms, and medicines are "controlled" but still legal (just conditionally legal). And some products and services are illegal in some places and not others (Marijuana, abortion services, etc). It could be construed that this policy prohibits using Firefox for any of those things.

- So accessing porn with Firefox is now illegal? Is watching "Game of Thrones" with FireFox now illegal? What about looking up information about homosexuality, transgenderism, pregnancy, abortion, etc which some states have tried to deem to be sexually explicit? It seems like any of that might now be banned using FireFox.

- This reads like I cannot use FireFox to look up someone's email address unless I first have their permission.

- It sounds like we are prohibited from violating people's "right to privacy" while the terms of use simultaneously reduce our own right to privacy.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 13:33:14 GMT

I would also add that there are companies which have processes for reviewing license agreements for software employees want to use. Companies which have such processes and existing FireFox installations will now need to have their legal teams re-review this agreement and determine if they can continue to use the product.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

nfisher — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 14:58:32 GMT

If you are paying -any- attention whatsoever you should buy now be aware that the user community very strongly disapproves of this, and with very good reason. Nobody wants to give you -any- rights to information we type into a browser window. The average Firefox user chose Firefox specifically to avoid exactly this scenario.

If you persist, expect your already tiny user base to take a massive hit.

Open source licensing already provides what the community considers acceptable terms of use. Basically, the user is free to use the software in any way that they see fit. Attempting to add to this effectively violates your own license.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

ARB — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 15:29:33 GMT

I don't want need any of this new stuff from Firefox. I'd be happy with the same browser and terms and conditions of a year or so ago. Forever. I don't want you to do anything with my uploaded content, apart from what I explicitly make clear I want you to do with it (e.g. post this comment). I don't need any AI. I don't need any chat. I don't need any personalised adverts, or any adverts in general. If I want to buy something, let me search for it, ask for a recommendation, see what a friend recommends. Please Mozilla, don't alienate the users who have always been your greatest defenders. Please don't lose all the things that have set you apart from the other browsers. You can't compete with them without becoming exactly like them, and you're already well behind in that race. There is no privacy with personalised adverts, period. There is no privacy with users implicitly consenting to do anything you like with their content. Privacy is/was the only thing setting you apart from other browsers. You really risk nothing setting you apart, and you may fade into oblivion.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

rdavidatwell — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 15:46:11 GMT

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy documents are for web services, not for browsers.

In a world where you don't own your computer, your operating system, your software, your content, or even your data, Firefox has always been the exception: "You can do whatever you want with Firefox! Once you download it, it becomes your browser." But now Mozilla is clawing back that shining, glorious isle of software peacefulness.

I've been a very vocal champion of Mozilla and of Firefox for years. I have defended things like the acquisition of Pocket (I actually use it extensively!), the addition of the AI chatbot sidebar, and the refocusing of energies on advertising and data collection as things that Firefox needed to do in order to stay relevant, grow their market share, and keep people employed.

And now, in this moment of glimmering opportunity, as Google is taking away a feature and telling Chrome users, "No, this is our browser, and you can't have any privacy either," Firefox had the opportunity to present itself as the refuge from everything that Chromium takes away from users. You could've said, "our terms of use: use the browser for good! Our privacy policy: your data remains private because we don't collect it at all." It could've been a remarkable distinctive for your user share. It could've positioned Mozilla as a paladin for the open web.

But instead, you're instituting a terms of use and a privacy policy that are vague and full of platitudes but represent a shift from your mission. This is a massive unforced error on Mozilla's part. If it was a EULA, that would be one thing. But this is not a EULA for an application. It's a TOS for a data collection service.

In your post, you said:

Transparency matters. We’re introducing a Terms of Use to provide clarity on what users agree to before starting to browse.

For twenty years, the agreement has been very simple: you don't take any data from us unless we explicitly agree to it. But your new TOU has a "nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license" clause, the very same clause that's been used for decades to excuse horrible abuses of privacy by the worst that Big Tech has to offer.

While a TOU makes sense when someone makes use of the features you mention, the blanket application to all browsing data makes it feel like you're preparing us for a rug pull, after which you're going to start using our data for AI training or ad targeting (something which the Privacy Policy specifically allows).

You shouldn't need a Terms of Use if all of the data remains on our device and we haven't opted-in to sending you any. You certainly don't need one to download and render a website. You only need one if Firefox isn't going to be a browser anymore, but a web service.

It's like Randall Munroe said in xkcd #463, many years ago: "Imagine you're at a parent-teacher conference, and the teacher reassures you that he always wears a condom while teaching. Strictly speaking, it's better than the alternative, yet someone is clearly doing their job horribly wrong." We chose Firefox because we wanted a browser, not a platform.

You also said:

Privacy remains a priority. Our updated Privacy Notice gives a more detailed, easy-to-read explanation of our data practices.

But this privacy policy is only necessary for certain parts of the browser, where data is actually sent to Mozilla's servers, and applying it in a blanket manner (as noted before) seems like the precursor to a rug pull.

You stay in control. Firefox is designed to respect user choice, with responsible defaults and simple tools to manage your data.

For now. How long until you update the terms of use to prohibit the deactivation of ad targeting on the New Tab page? Or allow you to sell browsing data to third parties? Or train large language models on the things I type into the fields I browse to?

Please cancel these broad policies and apply them only to the features that need them, agreed to only when we use them. The only way for us to truly "stay in control" is if the policies don't apply to us unless we choose to use the features that require giving you that protection.

The thing is, I don't know how you fix this breach of trust in a way that anyone can count on. Once you've presented yourself as willing to do this sort of thing, I just don't see a way to get that back. From being a bastion of the open web, poised to provide a product that people want and desperately need, you've now become a thin shadow of the thing that you claim to stand against.

I was a member of mozilla.social, and was very sad when that closed down. While a lot of people said this was a bad sign of the new direction Mozilla was moving in, I didn't take it as a red flag. Little did I know how much of a red flag it was; you could've chosen to promote that version of the next iteration of the web, but instead you went with AI.

I know that forks of Firefox await, versions of the browser that keep its old spirit alive. But I don't want to have to leave this browser or this community. Please reconsider.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

tdorian — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 16:18:22 GMT

Terms of Use =/= FOSS

Twenty years with Mozilla and it ends today. Even if this decision is quickly reversed you've just pulled a uTorrent and killed FireFox's legitimacy for good.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 16:43:34 GMT

And what exactly are the terms of service for THIS FORUM? Are you training an AI from our discussions here? Maybe it's time to delete all my Mozilla-related accounts, in addition to Firefox.

My disgust at these boneheaded moves by Mozilla knows no bounds. Are you sure the person who came up with this Firefox-killer isn't your own internal Agent Krasnov, attempting to kill the browser? (I'd add a "/s" but I'm not entirely sure I'm wrong.)

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 16:46:09 GMT

Hey, Ashley, how's your inbox this morning? On fire? Please communicate our near-unanimous disgust to the c-suite MBAs who just killed the company.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:01:18 GMT

I've been advocating for Mozilla and for Firefox since the Navigator times, this will make me advocate against Firefox and Mozilla.

it's not a contract that bounds user into following the Law, it's the Law. Any contract that says that we should follow the Law is absurd.
placing any limitation upon the usage of Firefox, makes it by definition not be Free Software (violates Freedom 0 of the definition of Free Software, and the 6th criteria of the Open Source Definition.
If simply using the software is accepting the terms, it's simply not true that it's transparent of that user remains in control.
Bounding the usage of Firefox to the current Acceptable Usage Policy, means that we can't use to access porn, do information security research (and many other tasks in that field), access and publishing information including but not only news, and educational content that might include depections and representation of violence, or that in someone opinion might be sexual; we can't send a message to someone we want to get in contact on chat but hasn't asked us for to do it, including our friends and family.

The entire thing looks like it was written by someone completly clueless about the things that online content moderation, what is the Law, and what matter to the people who have been supporting Mozilla over the years.

You're spitting on our face!

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:08:00 GMT

I'll still like to add that granting Mozilla rights to process any data simply by using the browser, is the path to a clear and serious violation of GDPR. This means you also don't care about transparency, or our privacy. You're not putting it first, you're disregarding it.

Also to simply use your browser we don't and there's not reason for authorizing the Mozilla Foundation, or the Company to act on our behalf. You're taking away our agency to make decisions and be responsible for ourselves. The browser that is running on my computer, is not the company or the foundation, even if it was created by one or both, and if it's in any way built to respect me then it's doing what I told it to do, and it doesn't involve you.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:12:05 GMT

Giving you a licence to use whatever is an extremely abusive therm, and it's obviously totally unnecessary, there's no Law anywhere that requires users to license anything they do for a software to work on their own computer, unless you want to take anything we do without our explicit and informed consent, and knowing what and when.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:13:36 GMT

If they don't plan to do it, they should make them exist.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:13:53 GMT

*shoudn't

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 20:07:38 GMT

What the heck do you mean by this:

> Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example.

NO ONE wants YOU (Mozilla) to use information typed info Firefox (the "private" web browser). You need to better explain what in the world you're doing with this new ToS, your blog post and this thread don't do a great job explaining what you're doing. You need to be WAY MORE transparent here.

It's clear that Mozilla employees aren't reading the negative replies to the posts here, but this one seems important. @AshleyT and Mozilla, please READ the replies here and fix this.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

xfvh — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 20:48:52 GMT

Your new acceptable use policy is bizarrely restrictive, completely unnecessary, and outright absurd.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

AshleyT — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:08:40 GMT

Thanks everyone for your active participation here. We knew this would have a lot of interest and so we’ve waited to dive into the conversation because we see some themes emerging that I’ll respond to broadly here. The main concerns I’m noting are around the license agreements we declare, our use of data for AI, and our Acceptable Use Policy. Below are a few clarifications to each of these areas.

Regarding our position around licensing, we need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use the words you type into Firefox to perform your searches, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice. We’ve added this note to our blog to clarify, so thank you for your feedback.

With respect to AI, our goal with Firefox is to build a browser that meets all the needs of a modern internet user while protecting your privacy and your rights online. In some cases we have some new features such as AI chatbot integrations, which require users to opt in to use them. In other cases, in order to make Firefox more functional, we deploy some local AI models to enable things like suggesting alt-text for accessibility purposes. These latter features are on by default but operate locally and we clarify exactly how the data is used in the Privacy Notice. They can also be turned off if you choose.

Our Acceptable Use policy has been in effect for some time now. These broad principles govern what we think is appropriate behavior on the specific user platforms we manage, like Mozconnect and our support platforms, not your browsing behavior. They are reflective of our Mozilla Manifesto principles and our mission to build a better Internet.

I’ll also drop a few replies where appropriate, but thank you again for your continued engagement. Criticism through moments of change is hard to stomach, but we’re committed to doing the right thing by you, our users.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

zxuiji — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:16:10 GMT

It's for this VERY reason I'm going to look for a different branch of firefox to use (like waterfox for example). I've also reported them on twitter for threatening to share private information since this very clearly falls under that.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

AshleyT — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:29:19 GMT

Thanks for calling attention to this concern. We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so I want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox to perform your searches, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice. We’ve added this note to our blog to clarify, so thank you for your feedback.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

X27 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:36:21 GMT

How is this a good thing?

So when I write story's images and videos I upload via the browser it is supposed to be between my computer and the website and no middle man, this seems no better privacy for us user's

I really don't want to change browser's but if Mozilla is going this route then the future of Firefox and your company is beyond recovery at this point

be better Mozilla

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

zxuiji — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:42:38 GMT

Doesn't change that the license to use and abuse our private data so take your PR bs and leave. You're not pulling the wool over our eyes, either remove those vile terms or lose at least half your users.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

rdavidatwell — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:42:50 GMT

@AshleyT, if any of that is true, how has Firefox survived for the last twenty years without it? If nothing is going to change, why is anything changing?

Regarding our position around licensing, we need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use the words you type into Firefox to perform your searches, for example.

This galls me to no end and makes me seriously question the assumption of good faith I was extending before. You don't need a license to perform searches. If you did, a user would have to agree to a license before Google allowed them to click "Search," but they don't.

In some cases we have some new features such as AI chatbot integrations, which require users to opt in to use them.

Then the Terms of Use should be agreed to at opt-in, not as a blanket agreement to use the browser.

In other cases, in order to make Firefox more functional, we deploy some local AI models to enable things like suggesting alt-text for accessibility purposes. These latter features are on by default but operate locally and we clarify exactly how the data is used in the Privacy Notice. They can also be turned off if you choose.

If they're truly entirely local, then you don't need a privacy policy to run them. As noted above, I was entirely willing to give you the benefit of the doubt before, but this explanation is squandering quite a lot of my goodwill because it sounds so horribly sneaky.

Our Acceptable Use policy has been in effect for some time now. These broad principles govern what we think is appropriate behavior on the specific user platforms we manage, like Mozconnect and our support platforms, not your browsing behavior. They are reflective of our Mozilla Manifesto principles and our mission to build a better Internet.

I'm sure that very few people are concerned about an AUP or TOS applied to an online service like Mozconnect. We're concerned with you applying such a thing to our web browser. Surely you understand that.

I’ll also drop a few replies where appropriate, but thank you again for your continued engagement. Criticism through moments of change is hard to stomach, but we’re committed to doing the right thing by you, our users.

Every single megacorp that intended to do something awful with stolen data has said the same thing. Before this week, though, I would've presumed that you were telling the truth about a commitment to do right by us. Before this afternoon, I would've presumed that you were misguided about this TOS, but still ultimately intended to do right by us. But after this comment that I'm replying to, I'll never be able to trust such a thing again. I'm going to have to watch Mozilla like a hawk from here on out, which is a shame.

You used to be one of the heroes.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Cvh-123 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:02:25 GMT

We are concerned because this answer, as per your blog, does not seem to be true. What basic functionality requires you (Mozilla) to collect our data and thus need a license for it? You (mozilla) only need a licence if you take our data. There is no need for a licence if you never see or never collect what we are typing. E.g. for searching it’s between me and the engine perform this searching. Not between me and Mozilla. Collecting data under license on everything going through a browser is a big issue and these terms give you permission you to do that.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

rdavidatwell — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:52:42 GMT

Incidentally, @AshleyT , I know you're just doing your job. We're mad at the company, not at you in particular. But please stop giving us the company line. This is bad, bad, bad; and pretending like these are minor disagreements that can just be explained and clarified away is missing the entire point we're making. We know what Mozilla means (or at least, what they want us to understand) by the policy. We have no issues with the platitudes. We have all the concern in the world about the policy itself.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

JamesHill — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:23:40 GMT

Mozilla has no right to in any way use or store the things the new policy mentions, nor do they need to. you are lying out of your ass.

edit: to be clear, I am referring to the company and not the employee specifically.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

SirWolf — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:33:05 GMT

I'm beyond angry, and it's staggering that you underestimated our reaction to this so badly. You've gone too far. Shame on you.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

SirWolf — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 23:15:32 GMT

A bit of reminder from old times:

"Net neutrality, also known as network neutrality, is the principle that all internet traffic should be treated equally by Internet Service Providers (ISPs). This means that ISPs should not discriminate or charge differently based on the user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or method of communication. The concept is designed to ensure a free and open internet, where users can access all legal content and services without interference or preference from ISPs."

Now compare that to what Firefox is doing right now.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

alienghic — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:44:11 GMT

Please allow people donating to the mozilla foundation to elect representatives to the board of directors so we can vote to decide if it's possible to fund raise to keep firefox instead of turning to advertising.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Natureshadow — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:47:17 GMT

> Regarding our position around licensing, we need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use the words you type into Firefox to perform your searches, for example.

Quite clearly NOT.

Firefox is a program running locally on my computer. I type things into search engines using it. If at any point here my search query even comes close to a Mozilla server, that is a serious bug in itself.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

SirWolf — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:48:20 GMT

The new CEO should be just fired, she's been doing nothing but destroying Firefox from the start.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

jkaelin — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 22:48:45 GMT

This comes at the same time as you are removing language from the FAQ about selling personal data. (Old string expires 25-04-2025, so this is coming in 2 months apparently.)

‎bedrock/firefox/templates/firefox/faq.html
Old:
Yep! The { -brand-name-firefox-browser } is free. Super free, actually. No hidden costs or anything. You don’t pay anything to use it, and we don’t sell your personal data.
New:
Yep! The { -brand-name-firefox-browser } is free. Super free, actually. No hidden costs or anything. You don’t pay anything to use it.

It definitely feels like a rug pull.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

SirWolf — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 23:08:38 GMT

See also: The Internet Is For Porn, a song from Avenue Q.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

SirWolf — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 23:11:54 GMT

"Deceive, mislead", tell that to the politicians, they have been doing that for who knows how long! And then we, regular people, spread their lies even further, just because of thinking, oh, they must be right! Even Facebook couldn't decide who's telling the truth and who doesn't. This rule makes zero sense.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

mattl_ — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 23:26:03 GMT

Mozilla doesn’t need to build any AI things.

All Mozilla needs to do is: make a web browser that is standards compliant and does not adopt any of the nonsense that for-profit companies are doing to try and destroy the web.

Mozilla doesn’t need to run a VPN service, data broker service or anything else.

I just want my money to donate to the development of the browser.

No AI stuff. No cryptocurrency donations. No proprietary plugins. No DRM.

Firefox shouldn’t even have a EULA. Mozilla should be collecting ZERO information from the browser that they cannot collect from httpd logs.

Anything beyond Firefox browsing the web and Thunderbird sending/receiving email/usenet messages should nothing for Mozilla to worry about.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 23:55:43 GMT

Ashley,

Thank you for writing. I want to be clear what I’m saying here really isn’t about you, it’s about the text of the Terms of Use. Such policies are written by lawyers, and my own experience dealing has taught me to be skeptical of anything a lawyer says or writes if they are not actually working -for me-. I apologize for the fact that I will be addressing the language of the Terms of Use and other policies from that perspective.

You wrote:

Regarding our position around licensing, we need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible.

I notice you are using the word “license” and not saying “Terms of Use”. Firefox already had a license, and I agreed to it at the time I previously installed it. That is separate from the Terms of Use, and as @rdavidatwell wrote earlier “Terms of Use and Privacy Policy documents are for web services, not for browsers”. The fundamental reason I am upset is because it looks like Firefox is transitioning from being a piece of software to a “service” which has “Terms of Use”. That means now those terms can change at any time even if I’m not installing a new copy or version of that software.

Then there is the “Privacy Policy”. I pulled up the old version in archive.org, and there are definitely big changes which appear to authorize data to be collected and used for advertising purposes. As @jkaelin points out above, it looks like a very important promise that “we don’t sell your personal data” is also being removed from the code. That seems like a big deal.

Regarding your second bullet:

With respect to AI, our goal with Firefox is to build a browser that meets all the needs of a modern internet user while protecting your privacy and your rights online.

My need in the current “high threat environment” is a browser with no AI and zero telemetry so that I can have the maximum amount of privacy and security I can achieve. You acknowledge that there are AI features that are on by default. And while you state that this can be disabled, in fact I was unaware of the “alt-text” AI specifically until you pointed it out. I can therefore conclude based on Mozilla’s direction and what you are saying is that other AI features which are “on by default” will be added in the future, and that I might not even know about them or that I would need to turn them off. (that’s not even getting into whether turning the feature off really achieves what I need: not just to hide features but to ensure they are not there at all).

In your third bullet you wrote:

Our Acceptable Use policy has been in effect for some time now. These broad principles govern what we think is appropriate behavior on the specific user platforms we manage, like Mozconnect and our support platforms, not your browsing behavior.

But the language of the FireFox “Terms of Use” state:

Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations.

This is specifically stating that FireFox, not MozConnect, must comply with the Acceptable Use Policy. If the intent was what you stated, then that language in the Terms of Use is simply wrong.

Unfortunately all that matters in the end is the language of the terms of service, not anything you might say or promise here.

Additionally this new policy was rolled out to be effective immediately rather than say 30 days from now. People didn’t really have time to evaluate or ask questions about it before it went into effect. That by itself is a problem. We must now assume Mozilla could change the Terms of Use with zero notice and people will only see it long after changes go into effect.

I hope Mozilla will consider changing their direction.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

merewin — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 00:00:28 GMT

Mozilla should just go ahead and dissolve at this point. Betraying every single thing the Mozilla has stood for, for the past decade or more, over some ridiculous, planet destroying, thieving AI fad. Every single person who works for Mozilla is a failure, and should be ashamed of themselves.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

fraggedy_andy — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 00:06:29 GMT

Now we're getting mixed messages from Mozilla. The ToU says that we "hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox." But don't say how long you have those rights for. However your privacy says you don't have rights to our data.

WHICH ONE IS IT? You haven't clarified anything. If anything, it's worse!

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Thomasns — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 01:50:35 GMT

I have been a loyal Firefox user since 1. There's been some disappointing decisions before but this one is over the line. I'm out and taking my VPN sub elsewhere.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

simpaticoder — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 01:54:38 GMT

Regarding your new terms of service and in particular this paragraph:

You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

I've been a strong proponent of Firefox for many years, since it came out around 2005, and have consistently suggested it to users as an alternative to Chrome (and Safari, where possible). I cannot continue to do so in good conscience given these terms. Nor can I continue using Firefox myself under these terms.

You are asserting ownership of all information I input through Firefox. Do you undrstand what this means in an age where we all interact with *everything* through the browser? Can you imagine if Microsoft or Apple asserted the same rights for their operating systems? As it stands, with this clause you give yourselves carte blanche to everything I say, do, or make and use your browser to send it to various sites. You give yourselves unrestricted access to my passwords, accounts, and interactions with those accounts with banks, medical providers, customers, friends, and more.

As of today, I am switching to Chromium (or a reasonable fork). Whether or not you reconsider this clause, the damage has been done to at least one user's trust, and I will not be coming back. I'm not sure what your intention was, but I also don't care: you should know better than to alienate your users, who are, as a class, more privacy- and rights-focused than average and yet you managed to poke us ALL right in the eye with this misstep.

To echo Dune's "may your knife chip and shatter", let me say: May your funding dry up and wither along with your already paultry market-share. I see now that your critics were right, that Mozilla existed merely as a fig leaf for Google's browser monopoly. Given the current political climate, it seems likely to me that Google will not need that fig leaf much longer, which leaves you, your legal teams, your leadership, and your engineers, looking for a job. Which perhaps explains this move, which gives Google a fig-leaf of another sort - they can now say, "Hey, look, WE aren't the bad guys, they are." Or, if you succeed in normalizing this outrageous power grab, they can grab the same power, too.

Shame on you, Mozilla. This bridge is burned and I don't think it can be rebuilt.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 01:56:41 GMT

No. This doesn't even pass the smell test. Right now, at this very moment, Firefox is a fully functional web browser with a fully functional search feature without requiring users agree to these "Terms of Use". If Mozilla is preparing to finally pull a total 180 on just about every principle it's held for an open web, just say so. We're not stupid.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

zyvod — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 02:08:14 GMT

preach. this is obvious corporate scumbaggery, and they're throwing a new employee who's been with mozilla less than a year to the wolves to make her the target of the all the abuse mozilla rightly deserves for this transparently awful move.

I'm switching to LibreWolf tonight, and I'm warning everyone I know about this as well. Mozilla deserves the grizzly end they're going to get over this. utterly appalling, especially how they just keep lying to our faces when the legal text they've put up is extremely clear. they want to steal everything we do with the browser, the TOS lets them do that, and they are straight up lying about their intentions.

@ash, your evil corporate overlords have made you the sacrificial pawn here. quit this job and find another one before being involved in this mess damages your life. I'm sure you personally had nothing to do with these decisions, and have no ability to fix this disaster. get out while you still can, girl.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

RalphZiggy — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 02:16:22 GMT

You're going to spy on us, monitor us, harvest our browsing information in violation of our privacy.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Grugspro — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 02:51:15 GMT

The new terms are vague and unacceptable, state clearly how and where the data is transferred to. I use Firefox to get away from data scrapers, and your removal of the promise to not sell my data in the Firefox FAQ is seen disapprovingly.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

FredJupiter — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 03:38:54 GMT

"upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information"

Such sloppy wording is extremely risky. The expression obviously includes also my binary data including what I upload on behalf of my employer, i.e. his and other's confidential data. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

KelsonV — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 04:28:20 GMT

"we need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible."

No, you don't. You never have before, and you don't need it now. Anything that doesn't go through your servers, you don't need a license for. And anything that doesn't *need* to go through your servers shouldn't be going through them in the first place.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Jorn218 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 04:36:42 GMT

The ToU clearly states what you just said it didn't. Either you're reading comprehension level is of toddler age, or you are lying. Any addendum to the ToU without specifically striking the offending verbiage means absolutely nothing. People are no longer ignorant or too lazy to read the fine print. You're about to lose thousands of users and Forefox will gobthe way of the Netscape browser

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

i430VX — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 05:10:18 GMT

As a longtime (admittedly not nearly as long of a time as some people here, however) Firefox user, I am very disappointed to see this change and lack of sufficient clarification and segmentation on the changes.

This said, I am frequently willing to play devil's advocate. As much of a shame as it is, maybe there is a valid argument for having AI/whatever services available in the browser to attract/retain a specific segment of users. Some of these services, being well, services, could feasibly need a terms of use attached to them for whatever reasons. And I do understand that Mozilla has not had a particularly good financial situation in quite some time, so the need to make money is there. I get that. But don't enshrine it into the policies that supporting Mozilla financially or in other ways with our data is a requirement to use the browser.

When there's a significant and very passionate installed user base of technical people who are using the product for privacy-oriented reasons, ambiguity and overzealousness with the privacy permissions / rights / licenses Mozilla grants themselves is not going to do this user base any favours. Even if it is NOT the intention at all for Mozilla to be construing that EVERYTHING happening by users in the Firefox browser has a license granted to Mozilla for their use, can be data-mined for profit, whatever... the current wording appears (IANAL) to be readily interpretable as such. If this intention really, truly, is not the case, then it is essential to properly reword the terms thoroughly to say exactly what is meant and exactly where, when, & how it applies, if this happens by default or is an opt-in thing. The premise (as can be interpreted presently) that a universal and unforgiving license deal is needed to use what is essentially a fancy tool and NOT (at its core, anyway) a service is just nuts.

As an example think of, say, a digital camera. This is usually completely (or virtually completely) a product... a tool. It may have auxiliary services, maybe cloud sync or automatic photo editing, whatever, I don't know. Feasibly these aspects could need terms of use to avoid liability on the company's part. Or whatever their goal is. But I think it is very likely you will not find a camera itself with terms of use, or one that grants the manufacturer rights to do as they please with any and all photos taken with the camera. Again... maybe this isn't Mozilla's intention, but plain and simple, it's how it's been laid out, and this is likely not going to be acceptable to a very large number of people.

I feel as if anything that would fall under the realm of being able to be used/sold by Mozilla should be opt in only and very clearly present the conditions of it on opt in. Heck, even make it easy to opt in. Add it on the first run screen that exists in the browser for new installations and/or major upgrades. It is just a certainty however that to a lot of people having such features or services exist on the platform at all will already make them uncomfortable.

I miss the days of "classic" Firefox for sure, but I still think it's a good browser. In fact I think its considerably better now than it was a few years ago. I try my best to promote the Firefox and other FOSS that I like - it would be a shame to see Firefox succumb to disconnection from the user base such as numerous other projects over time. Especially in this case when there's (IMO) no serious non-chromium options out there. I think a lot of people would argue that the death already happened some time ago, but I am hopeful that there is still a chance to recover.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

zackc — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 06:12:43 GMT

You guys just deleted the promise you made about never selling our data:

"Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise"

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

bpluy — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 08:50:10 GMT

I don't use Google for Searches. All the Search box should do is pass it on to the Search Service. There's no need for an explicit licence.

Nor is it acceptable to require an absolute licence to enter data into a third party application using a browser.

No one needs to grant a licence to an Editor to edit files on a Desktop.

This is an overreach and an unfair Contract Term.

S. P. Lucy

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

kalib_tweli — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 08:55:00 GMT

Why not just have a paid subscription option? Why do we have just straight to selling our data?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 09:54:56 GMT

Firefox, I still rmember when you where the promising new kid on the block. Sad to see you go over to the dark side. RIP.

You will be uninstalled from my and my families devices.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

nfg — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:06:15 GMT

I have been using Firefox since the early days, and before that the Mozilla Suite. It saddens me, but it is now clear that it is time to move on. I cannot accept this Terms of Use. You have decided to become an advertising and activist organization. Thank God for Capitalism and Free Software, I can choose to use another browser that will not collect my data or force their politics on me.

I hope the browser lives on in another form, but Mozilla Foundation and Corporation are defunct if this is the way you choose to go.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:13:38 GMT

Privacy is not a concept with shades of gray. Just as it is impossible to be "a little pregnant," it is impossible to be "a little private." Firefox’s decision to stop protecting users from ads puts it on the same level as browsers that gradually restrict users' rights over time. This is unacceptable. If this decision is not reversed soon, I will stop all donations and start looking for an alternative browser. I hope a fork will emerge because the technology itself was developed by those who are not the ones making such decisions now.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

k102 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:30:49 GMT

Well, it makes my, as a web dev, life easier.

I think after this "move", quite a lot of people, me included, are going to switch to something else, which will most likely be based on chromium, therefore I won't need to check my work in ff as well, so... Thank you?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:23:40 GMT

https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e

If Firefox is no better than Chrome, why should users choose Firefox? Please revert this commit! Vague policies don't make situation look better.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

artfulrobot — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:25:35 GMT

I've been a Firefox user since the first release, have deployed it in companies as a policy. I'm really sad to see this happening now. The blatant removal of We won't sell your data and things previously called "promises ... ever" alongside the complete lack of response from Mozilla to people exposing this just makes me think the worst: that Mozilla is now a puppet of big tech and its policies are no longer its own.

I realise the elephant in the room might be the naivety of people like me who have merrily ignored the fact that the browser exists because Google pays for it (I understand Mozilla got just under $1bn from Google last year).

Perhaps Mozilla are just saying: wake up and smell the coffee: we're compromised and have been for years and now we're just trying to keep our funding/jobs by selling out our community to big tech.

Anyway, really disappointed by (a) this move and (b) the silence from Mozilla.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:27:11 GMT

Yup, and taking into account that this was main selling point of this browser it's unclear why they made this move? This change must be reverted, and those who made the decision to implement it should be fired. These people have absolutely no understanding of the values of the Mozilla Foundation. How did they even end up in leadership?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

tom25519 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:33:20 GMT

Yes, Mozilla shouldn't involve useless thing like politics, just focus on technology like Firefox and VPN, etc and privacy and freedom of Internet.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:33:15 GMT

AsheleyT, please, leave mozilla foundation. Don't destroy project that was build by so many talented people!

The clarifications you gave are not improving situation. This should stay in firefox, otherwise it's not Firefox any more:

"Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise."

If you don't understand this, how could you lead this project?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:35:27 GMT

I agree. Probably foundation needs a fork. Because I do not donate for this **bleep**.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

loriwew — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:36:23 GMT

I started using Firefox with version 0.7 -- when it was still called Firebird -- over 20 years ago, and since then I've used it consistently and without fail on all my computers, across all operating systems, and as a sysadmin and general computer guy, always recommended it to all friends. But this is it. I'm done. I'm out. You truly have lost sight of why you have made it this far, who your users are and what they want, and at this point I'm out of sympathy, and out of patience with the endless boneheaded and tonedeaf moves. You deserve your inevitable slide into total irrelevance.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

scopecreep — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:40:54 GMT

This is corporate suicide. You've literally just killed Mozilla and theres nothing you can do to save it now.

You've broken our trust. Even if this is retracted the damage you have done to your reputation is irreversible.

Better update those resumes.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:41:40 GMT

Thank you for taking the time to engage, but unfortunately, I can't consider that the reply is in any way convincing, or really addressing the issues with valid arguments.

regarding licensing: you're showing a fundamental misunderstanding between a product, and service; a web browser and a search engine; and how copyright actually works.
- Firefox is a web browser, a product, when I use Firefox, I'm using a browser.
  Mozilla manufactured the browser, and in some cases it distributed it to the users, and that's it. When Firefox users are using the web browser, Mozilla isn't doing anything on their behalf. It's the user that is directly doing. Just like when I get a hammer, the hammer manufacturer is not hammering the nails on behalf of the those that swing the hammer towards the nails, Mozilla isn't doing anything when we use Firefox, it's the user, those who have Firefox installed on their computer, who are doing something, Mozilla isn't doing something, and certainly not something on their behalf.
- Firefox is a web browser, it's not a search engine, when we use Firefox to search, or request something on the web, we're using Firefox, Mozilla is not involved, because Mozilla doesn't even have a search engine, so you're argument for the need for Mozilla to have a license for doing searches, is totally invalid, and anyone who has a basic grasp on how the web works, knows this. It's insulting that you use such an obviously fake argument, on a highly technical crowd.
- Any web search engine query isn't even a type of creative work protected by copyright, I do know that this is a bold statement, but I'm pretty sure no judge would ever classify it as such, even if they could in theory be a class of protected works, the almost entirety of them are not because most of them don't have enough originality to be. Furthermore, it's also certain that any copy that is technically required, and exclusively kept temporarily, for the single reason of satisfying the technical needs of facilitating the communication of a work, don't require any licensing. This is how the Internet and any data, and telecommunication network is legally allowed to exist.
- Another point, no other Open Source browser has ever had such condition for usage, and even Firefox existed many, many years, without the need for such requirement, proving that it's clear to all that not necessary, and it's therefore abusive.
In respect with AI, if you're building AI, based on confidential, private data from users, which might even include very sensitive data, without their explicit and informed consent, you're breaking all the principles that Mozilla has ever said it stands for.
The acceptable use policy has all the problems people have pointed out, you're not addressing any of our concerns in your reply. They make Firefox not being Free Software and Open Source Software, and some of them are illegal, and they are certainly not smart, or aligned with Mozilla stated values, and in some cases not being illegal, they are certainly abusive (like the one about sexual and violent content).
- The acceptable use policy is being presented as a policy that applies to the Firefox Web Browser, not only the Mozilla online/web services. Your statement contradicts what is actually written on the documents.
  This is what is actually written on the "Firefox terms of use" (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/terms/firefox/#you-are-responsible-for-the-consequences-of-your-use-of-firefox) there about that:
  This means that it's about the browser, and at least not only about the "web based information services" as you (Mozilla) call them on the "about:rights#webservices" page that ships with Firefox.
- Furthermore, even if those terms would not apply to the browser, but only to the "web based information services", they would still be awful because they mean that:
  - it can't be used to send unsolicited messages, which means I can't message initiate a contact my family or friends, if I'm a journalist I can't initiate a contact to get a new source, if I'm researcher I can't use it to do communicate to request research information from people I've never contacted and got authorization before (and can't use this service to request such authorization), and many other reasonable uses.
  - I can't store and synchronize bookmarks and tabs for any purpose that in any way can be considered of sexual or violent nature, including for researching, if they are considered art, are for education, are part of journalistic work, etc...
  - They are useless, as it's not a contract that creates the obligation to follow the law,
  - They are certainly not aligned with Mozilla stated values (my previous premises and arguments, as well as others on this thread prove it).

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Polle — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:45:06 GMT

Point me in the direction of Firefox Users that want AI-Chatbots in their Browser. People that want "a browser that meets all the needs of a modern internet user" have switched to Chromium Browsers a decade ago when Firefox lagged behind some years. The only ones that returned are users that valued their privacy and other promises of FOSS more than any of that "modern internet user" bs.

I have multiple browsers for different tasks and needs; the only reason Firefox is the "main" browser is, that I always trusted it to have a somewhat better policy regarding my data and privacy and the low-threshold ability to block third parties. I honestly won't need Firefox anymore after those changes. And I certainly don't need any sort of AI bull as part of my browser.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Polle — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:45:45 GMT

Even created an account just because I am mad enough to express my disappointment

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:46:03 GMT

I hope someone forks Firefox and rebuilds the community on principles that were there at the moment of growth. Otherwise, I hope https://ladybird.org/posts/announcement/ will come with the solution. They probably need to take advantage of the situation and start a funding campaign 🙂

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Ponda — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:52:11 GMT

The only clear part of this situation is that Mozilla has to rewrite ToS and Privacy Policy to be unambiguos, direct and detailed while explaining precisely why the changes are needed and how the data is processed. Any avoidance or further passiveness in this matter will undoubtly result in significant and irrevocable loss of trust and support from the community, which is essential for Firefox to continue operations.

I hope Mozilla can see this is "make it or break it" moment for the future of Firefox and the foundation.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Syntaxerror — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:53:08 GMT

> We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible.

That's a load of crap and you know it. "Basic functionality" is to download and render webpages.

> Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox to perform your searches, for example.

I do not WANT you to use that information. It doesn't belong on your servers or anyone elses.

For over 15 years I've been using Firefox and recommending it to anyone that asked. I guess that will have to change now. At least there's still IceCat and other forks.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Syntaxerror — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:54:24 GMT

Same here.

And if people want an AI chatbot in their browser, then that's EXACTLY what AddOns are good for!

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

adsonly — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:39:57 GMT

How long do you hold those rights to our data?

When you read the documents, they say up to 25 months and with unique identifiers and Moz share this with partners. WTF!

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#lawful-bases

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

zur13 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 10:56:11 GMT

Wow, what a phenomenal decision! According to the new license, they’ve apparently granted themselves the right to even sell off your login credentials. So if I type my username and password anywhere, Mozilla can legally pass that information on to the highest bidder! How remarkably convenient - nothing says “privacy” like the right to peddle personal data!

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous5 — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:14:48 GMT

An interesting fact is that if you don't log into Google, Chrome collects significantly less personal information than the updated Firefox ToS allows for data collection. If you care about privacy, use an Ungoogled Chrome variant like Thorium. The only reason we ever loved a browser that couldn't even implement web standard APIs from over two years ago and lagged behind Blink in performance—even after creating a whole new language like Rust—was its respect for privacy. Regardless of whether the ToS revision is withdrawn, the fact that a responsible person made such a statement is proof that the Firefox project has already failed.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

s-m-e — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:20:10 GMT

Not wanting to trigger any filters with adequately strong language, that's an impressively "stupid" thing to do. There is little I can add to the discussion other than that I'll now have to burn some time on finding a suitable replacement.

Firefox user since 0.8, 21 yeas and a few weeks it has been.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:32:31 GMT

We need privacy. Privacy is enough DEI.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:35:28 GMT

And even if browser wants to integrate that, they don't need to lie us that such privacy changes are required for that. Chat bot are no different from Google.

Broken trust and deception—that's what's happening.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

otto — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 14:22:42 GMT

Couldn't this have waited until Servo was more mature? Please revise and consider changing leadership that is acting against user interest.
Also: how can users opt-out? Oh they can't 🥴

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

pva — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:37:52 GMT

BTW, do I understand correctly that pornhub blocked by these so called "new rights"?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

nsa — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:46:29 GMT

Any complaint I have about this has undoubtedly already been said multiple times, but I am just sad Mozilla has decided to shoot themselves in the foot like this. I have recommended Firefox to many of my friends, and have used it on every computer I own, however that stops today unless these changes are reverted. It is simply moronic to assume users who chose Firefox for its privacy benefits will simply accept these changes and move on. For anyone in my situation looking to jump ship, forks like Waterfox & LibreWolf could be an alternative if they do not contain these privacy-disrespecting features, or an independent browser like Palemoon or Ladybird could be more suitable.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DaveSea — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:50:57 GMT

This stinks. This isn't a question of messaging or clarifying. You cannot ask your users to give you these broad rights to their data. This agreement, as currently written, is not acceptable. Where are the clauses limiting how you can interpret 'helping' us to 'navigate, experience or interact with online content' or the 'uses' you might make of it? Whether or not you had benign intentions, the purpose of these 'terms of use' agreements is to be legally enforceable. Why would you ask your users to sign up to an agreement that is as clearly exploitable as this? As written it allows Mozilla to harvest everything we type into the browser and train an AI with it. Is that not obvious to you?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:04:38 GMT

If you would allow me to descend from mere distrust into wild dystopian paranoia….

The Terms of Use say this:

You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet.

And the FireFox Privacy Notice includes the following:

To comply with applicable laws, and identify and prevent harmful, unauthorized or illegal activity

We may also be required to process your personal data to comply with applicable laws and protection purposes, such as:

Responding to lawful requests and complying with legal processes, such as responding to subpoenas, investigations, or requests from government authorities. Mozilla requires a valid Legal Process to compel the disclosure of Specific User data to a government.

[...]

Identifying, investigating and addressing potential fraudulent activities, or other harmful activities such as illegal activities, cyberattacks or intellectual property infringement (including filing or defending legal claims).

Then under “Lawful Bases” it says:

To comply with applicable laws, and identify and prevent harmful, unauthorized or illegal activity.

All data types

Compliance with law in responding to data subject rights requests, responding to law enforcement requests, managing and protecting our (and our users) rights, property and/or safety. Legitimate interest, where compliance is not appropriate, in supporting legal or regulatory processes or requests, preventing fraud and managing and protecting our (and our users’) rights, property and/or safety.

Learn more about how we respond to lawful requests.

"Lawful Requests" appears to include all kinds of requests such as “Wiretap Orders” and “subpoenas”. And Subpoenas don't just happen in criminal cases, they can happen in civil cases as well.

Since Mozilla is getting a “license” to anything we put into our browser, does this mean Mozilla can be compelled to disclose it upon receipt of a legal request or wiretap order?

In fairness, perhaps whether this is part of the privacy policy or not Mozilla would still need to comply with court orders, warrants, etc no matter what. But isn’t our “agreeing” to a “Terms of Use” policy which gives Mozilla ownership of our data and Mozilla implementing features which involve any type of data collection an open invitation to get dragged into an attempt by the FBI to issue a wiretapping order vs some reporter or a lawsuit by a some evil mega-corporation vs some little nonprofit watchdog dot org?

Isn’t the way to avoid this for FireFox not become a “service” which has rights to data people enter into their browsers in the first place and instead remain a piece of standalone open source software which doesn’t send ANYTHING to Mozilla during the course of normal use?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

rstarkov — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:08:36 GMT

The wording of the licence I supposedly grant to you is extremely bad. I get what you're trying to say (I hope!), but the manufacturer of a hammer does not require me to grant them a licence to hit a nail I own, nor to explicitly list that I'm not supposed to hit people with that hammer.

Why is this stuff necessary? I can only see one reason: you wish to grant yourself a little more than is actually implied by my use of your tools.

Your terms also state that you can terminate and withdraw anyone's access to Firefox. How exactly is that supposed to work?

You've banned the use of Firefox for watching "graphic depictions of sexuality or violence" (so half of Hollywood movies)? For real?

What this looks like, is that you've made a largely unenforceable, but extremely unpleasant ToS. It has no purpose other than to hurt your reputation, and to maybe allow you to snoop on what I input or upload (you pinky promise not to, just yet, but the Terms essentially make it okay).

What a terrible, terrible development for Firefox and Mozilla.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:10:02 GMT

I wouldn't call it blocked,because I wouldn't describe this legal instrument as a block, but it's certainly against the rules, but maybe so are so pictures from some museums, some movies on Netflix/Disney/Amazon Prime/other streaming services, even newscasts on Youtube with images from war, or from crimes.

The degree of lack of though that go into this policy is appalling.

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

rstarkov — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:11:32 GMT

Can you clarify it in the legal document and not on some blog?

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

DMConstantino — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:19:09 GMT

And it's not even about pictures, any depiction, or representation of those types of content are affected, and all types of things are affected, not only art, information/journalism and research, so is education (sexual education, anti-bullying, etc...), all sorts of campains to prevent risks and abuses, etc...

Re: Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox

tpdi — Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:20:06 GMT

So some C-suite MBAs figure they're going to get rich by creating an ads system and AI training data from users' data. Vultures eating the dessicated remains of Mozilla's abandoned principles.