topic Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist in Discussions

How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Jon — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 16:36:31 GMT

Let’s talk about advertising—more specifically, how Mozilla should participate in it while staying true to our core values.

Earlier today, Mozilla President Mark Surman published a blog post on the topic. And Mozilla CEO Laura Chambers also shared her thoughts.

We want to hear your thoughts too.

We are committed to doing a better job engaging with our community and keeping you informed of the work we’re doing and why we believe in it. Mozilla wouldn’t be where we are today without the support of our community members, and we want to continue working together to build a better internet for all. That’s what we hope to use this space for.

To kick off the discussion, here are a few important points from the blog posts:

Advertising on Mozilla products, including Firefox will remain focused on respecting user privacy. That’s table stakes for us.
By deploying and iterating on new technologies, we aim to improve our standardization efforts and prove that advertising can support online ecosystems without eroding individual privacy.
Our focus is on technologies and methods like differential privacy, encryption, aggregation, and multiparty computation, which allow advertisers and publishers to derive insights about advertising performance without sharing user data with each other.

Please check out the above blog posts and share your feedback here. Or if you have any questions, let us know. We’ll be actively monitoring the discussion and plan to share our takeaways in a follow-up post.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Lutz — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 18:54:04 GMT

In her blog post Laura says about PPA:

While the trial was never activated for external users …

What does „external user“ mean? The feature is enabled by default in Firefox and much has been written by Mozilla about this being intentional. I am confused.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

brixter — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 19:04:26 GMT

I'd like the ability to block ads by media type. I'm fine with text, picture ads or even gifs but video ads or live streaming videos are annoying. Since this can't be done, I just block all ads even those that I can tolerate.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

IsaG — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 20:06:19 GMT

I don't want a single part of my peripheral vision occupied by someone trying to sell me something.

I do not tolerate any advertisements.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Lutz — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 04:21:08 GMT

As do I. Even a non-tracking ad is ugly, distracting and obscures my view of the content I am interested in. So I block them all as much as possible.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

wutongtaiwan — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 13:27:57 GMT

I can't accept any ads. I hope that Mozilla will do everything in its power to fight advertisers, and I hope that the adguard ad filter will be built-in, which will protect the privacy of users to a great extent

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Frisky — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 13:39:06 GMT

Users don't want this. Strange how in this post, it is recognized that Mozilla wouldn't exist without the support of its community, yet in Laura Chamber's post, it is made clear twice that Mozilla "acknowledges" that the majority of their users don't want this. Which is a understatement.

A company based on privacy should not be leaning into advertising.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

GeneralNapkin — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 14:05:03 GMT

Considering the reason most use Firefox, this is really blowing your entire leg off.

Ads and privacy, even with 'privacy respecting controls' do not go hand-in-hand. Any ad, even tiny, if visible, is unacceptable, when all you want is information (the whole purpose of the Internet).

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

gabeweb — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 14:40:25 GMT

Maybe:

Optional (users decide if wants to see ads or not)
Non-intrusive
Random (not related to content, user history and other "personal" data)
Auditable
Fairly policy (advertisers and products must be real)
Minimal design but identifiable as an ad

I remember the early days of Opera Browser (when you had to pay for a web browser) and the free version had those HORRIBLE banner ads in the user interface. OMG. Same with Eudora Mail.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Eriskyn — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 14:55:45 GMT

If people wanted ads in their browser they would go back to Chrome.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

DonutRush — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 15:09:09 GMT

Mozilla has been in the business of burning user goodwill for the past several years. Why should we trust you at all? What reason do we have to believe that any of this behaves the way you say it does?

You also have single digit market share, so there's zero reason for advertisers to behave either. It is already an industry based on dirtbag behavior, what reason would they have to respond to Firefox asking nicely?

We do not trust you. You buy ad companies, install complex tracking experiments without our consent, chase idiotic industry trends with no regard for whether they actually improve Firefox or the web.

The only thing Mozilla can actually do here is build harder into adblocking. Otherwise there is no reason to believe you are being honest or trustworthy, based on the past several years of your behavior. You also just use this very forum for us to vent, and then ignore us anyway.

You don't have a single leg to stand on.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

dumpsterFire — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:01:18 GMT

My use of mozilla products will be restricted to forks of firefox. You can try to show me ads, but I doubt my use will generate any revenue that you will need in order to fuel innovation.

Mozilla should find another way to monetize outside of advertising. The advertising industry is a bubble: most of the money generated from it comes from collecting data for targeted ads and clients that are willing to over pay. Given how invasive and predatory advertising has become, its users moral imperative to block all possible forms of advertising.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Sopel — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:19:59 GMT

wtf are these comments? are people unable to read these days?

this is a good direction and hope you continue it

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Eriskyn — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:24:16 GMT

Found the Mozilla employee

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

lackey — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:47:09 GMT

NO.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

greatwoohoo — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 17:10:48 GMT

Funny way to put it but I completely agree with this. The one and only reason I am using Firefox and for so long is only Firefox can completely block ads and trackers. Even if some websites don't render correctly and some completely freezes I refuse to give up on Firefox because it has always respected my privacy and choice to not see any adverts. Looks like the management has decided to change all that.

So good luck to Mozilla and Firefox team.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

2mustange — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:16:38 GMT

You are making this move? This move when Google is killing ad blockers and will just bring in a larger market share to Firefox over time. This just doesn't make sense at this time. I'm sorry but Mark and Laura are out of touch here on where the community wants to see the direction of Mozilla. Sure you have to run a business but you are running the changes at the expense of losing your community.

This pragmatic solution inspires us to envision a world in which digital ads can be both effective and privacy-preserving. It’s not impossible.

I envision a world where I am not bombarded by digital ads at all. And if i see an ad then it contains non of my data.

However, I can imagine a world where advertising online happens in a way that respects all of us, and where commercial and public interests are in balance.

This comment just reads "Private Equity Firm" all over it. Which makes me believe there is something nefarious behind the scenes

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

gabeweb — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:19:15 GMT

Well, not all of us are able to pay one more subscription, much less from a third world country.

The idea is not crazy, as long as the ads are OPTIONAL, not obligatory.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Sopel — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:29:37 GMT

> And if i see an ad then it contains non of my data.

Your comment is ironic, given that this is exactly what this move is trying to achieve

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Sopel — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:30:23 GMT

where did you get this idea that they will start showing you ads?

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

AdvertsSHALLdie — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:38:28 GMT

Going forward with this implementation is antithetical in every way, shape and form to what a privacy respecting web browser should be.

I will not tolerate ads in ANY form. I use the web for information. Not to be sold something or have my usage data sold to third-parties without my consent. PERIOD.

I'm sorry Jon. There is no squaring the circle of privacy preserving advertising.
UBO is the only feature that is keeping me from seeking alternatives to Firefox. Once that goes, myself and hordes of your community will go with it.

From here on out I will be donating money to help further develop Ladybird Browser.
Your two faced actions are proof of how important alternatives are.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Eriskyn — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 18:48:53 GMT

Then don't pay for subs and continue to block all ads. Don't know why location matters on this.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

gabeweb — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 19:02:31 GMT

@Eriskyn wrote:
Then don't pay for subs [...]

That's the point, I don't want to see a "Firefox Premium" with a subscription model, SAAS.

Mozilla is looking for a way to be “non-impactful,” but there is a thin red line between privacy and sustainability.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Eriskyn — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 19:04:59 GMT

If Mozilla wanted to do a sub based model, they will do it in addition to ads. The decision to block ads will not affect their decision to do subscriptions.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Ichikawa — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 20:27:38 GMT

If i get ads, at all, I am not being respected as a user. I will leave this browser. Completely tone deaf.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Steeltent — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 22:31:20 GMT

Do what you think is right as long as I can opt out of it and as long as ad blocking is still supported.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Pikebot — Sat, 05 Oct 2024 11:52:13 GMT

This sucks, man. Mozilla is not the first organization to try and make an anonymized ad tracking system, and every single time it’s been deanonynimized almost immediately. There’s no reason to think that this will be any different.

Advertisers are the enemy of privacy. If you get into bed with them, it really doesn’t matter what your intentions are, the result WILL be less secure and private. Mozilla should be treating them as an enemy, not trying to make friends.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

wutongtaiwan — Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:52:43 GMT

I can tell you very clearly that Mozilla's privacy-preserving attribution will lead to a decrease in the number of Firefox users, and if FIrefox has a built-in adguard ad filtering extension, the number of Firefox users will increase.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

ohno — Sat, 05 Oct 2024 15:27:17 GMT

Just out curiosity? How do you think a technically oriented community that prizes its privacy is going to feel about being lied to and/or considered stupid by your executive/advertising team? I can tell you... it's not going to go well for you.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

dumpsterFire — Sat, 05 Oct 2024 19:43:44 GMT

mozilla is creating an incentive structure to show users ads... this is a very bad thing for the long term, even if they implement this plan like they say they are going to

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

baser-acts0i — Sat, 05 Oct 2024 20:20:11 GMT

There is no such thing as anonymous data. The digital data brokers have been in this arms race for 30 years now. You really think they won't be able to pinpoint you just because of an obfuscation layer? - For example, look into how page loaded fonts can be used for cross site tracking.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

VideoAcct19 — Sun, 06 Oct 2024 04:43:17 GMT

Not on mobile. They still are yet to get their act together for iPhone. We can’t extensions on mobile or ad blockers. I use Firefox as my primary browser on Macbook but this has me unable to on mobile.

Listen to your users Mozilla or you’ll lose us

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

VideoAcct19 — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 16:20:29 GMT

A subscription model will sink Mozilla. This is a day and age that people are looking to save money, not need to spend more. I already paid for lifetime subscription to AdGuard which you are yet to allow us to integrate to Firefox on iPhone. Having paid for that, why in the hell should I pay for a subscription (repeated cost) to Mozilla?! I’ll go back to using Safari as my primary browser overall and only keep Firefox for building websites.

You seriously need to rethink this…

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

wutongtaiwan — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 06:00:24 GMT

If you want to increase the number of Firefox users, you need to improve your privacy protections, such as the built-in adguard filtering plugin, browser fingerprint randomization, built-in Tor network DPI protection, etc., you can focus on this aspect. Stop clinging to advertising

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Erwan62 — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 09:02:40 GMT

My point of view:

There is no such thing as good publicity!

I am even in favor of banning advertising, it would destroy the capitalist-liberal system in 2 seconds.

More seriously, I feel betrayed by a good number of decisions and directions taken by Mozilla in recent times and I feel that I am gradually losing the faith that I had for you.

Afterwards, I want to qualify, if it remains optional and a voluntary action on the part of the users, I can be satisfied with it. The problem is that you are doing this dishonestly:

- This function is activated by default without the user, who is not paying attention, being aware and consenting.
- It is impossible to request deletion after the fact.
- Users are not notified if they do not frequent your blogs.

Solution :

When Firefox is launched, a window should open and asks very explicitly what the user wants to activate in Firefox, this would concern: sponsors, tracking functionalities (whether anonymized or not) and all the little junk that we are added gradually (like the shopping experience!!).

Ps: Given the way things are going and the diminishing confidence I have in the foundation, please know that I am stopping sharing my telemetry data with you.

--FR------------------------------------------

Mon point de vue :

Il n'y a pas de bonne publicité !

Je suis même partisan de l'interdiction de la publicité, ça détruirait le système Capitaliste-libérale en 2 secondes.

Plus sérieusement, je me sens trahis par un bon nombre de décisions et d'orientation prises par Mozilla ces derniers temps et je sens bien que je perds progressivement le foie que j'avais pour vous.

Après, je veux bien nuancer, si cela reste facultatif et une action volontaire de la part des utilisateurs, je peux m'en satisfaire. Le problème, c'est que vous faites cela de façon malhonnête :

- Cette fonction est activée par défaut sans que l'utilisateur, qui ne ferait pas attention, soit au courant et consentant.

- Il est impossible de demander la suppression après coup.

- Les utilisateurs ne sont pas prévenus s'il ne fréquente par vos blogs.

Solution :

Au lancement de Firefox, une fenêtre devrait s'ouvrir et demande très explicitement ce que l'utilisateur veut activer dans Firefox, cela concernerait : les sponsors, les fonctionnalités de suivies (qu'elles soit anonymisé ou pas) et toutes les petites cochonneries qu'on nous ajoute progressivement (comme le shopping expérience !!).

Ps : Au vu des tournures que prennent les choses et de la diminution de confiance que j'ai envers la fondation, sachez que j'arrête de partager avec vous mes données télémétriques.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

cpearson — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 18:00:26 GMT

Hey Jon, I appreciate that you folks are soliciting feedback from the community.

Privacy is an important subject for many Firefox users and it's not typically used in the same sentence as advertising so it's understandable that there's quite a bit of concern. I think it's important first of all to communicate Mozilla's vision and roadmap here clearly and transparently with the community. Mark's post is a great step here.

The more difficult part may be to clarify how Mozilla is balancing its mission with its bottom line. PPA looks like it could be great improvement on the current web advertising situation where users have to choose between blocking ads and depriving creators of revenue or exposing themselves to malware and invasive tracking. But is Mozilla pushing PPA because a world with PPA as the default is a more private world, or because a world with PPA as the default brings more revenue to Mozilla through Anonym.

It is certainly possible to earn money while improving the web, but it invites the concern that someday those goals may come into conflict. In that case, which would win? Mozilla's ideals of privacy or Mozilla's revenue? It may not be possible to fully assuage concerns here, but some more transparency around the business side may help. In this day and age having a non-profit owner does not engender any trust. People are justifiably skeptical of any corporation and trust has to be earned.

In my opinion, PPA would be a good step forward. But I worry Mozilla might be doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. I hope to be proven wrong.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 23:13:45 GMT

To be fair their hands are tied on iPhone because Apple won't allow extensions for browsers on iOS. Apple wants all content blockers to be separate apps installable from the App Store. Firefox on Android however does have extension support and a few ad blockers are available straight from within Firefox itself.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 23:40:16 GMT

I think what's missing from this discussion is a proper respect for the users' intelligence and agency. We are not mindless drones. We don't need to be constantly reminded that there is an economy, and that people who run companies want us to buy the things their companies produce. I don't need to be constantly inundated with reminders that Ford is selling a new F-150 this year that is 12% flashier than the one from last year or that Starbucks is still selling overpriced coffee. And let's be honest, this isn't what advertising is really used for most of the time anyways. Most of time it's used to display fake virus pop ups and scam old people out of their life savings or trick kids into downloading a malicious app on their smart device believing they'll really get to play GTA 6 on their Kindle Fire tablet.

As with my money, my time and attention is mine and I will decide, of my own free will, where, when and with whom I will spend it. I do not owe advertisers anything. Their deals aren't with me. I never agreed to anything. And Mozilla needs to tread very carefully here because Laura's own blog post states, twice, that they know most of us do not want this in any form and yet, like a rapist who refuses to take no for an answer, they are forcing it on us anyways. That is not hyperbole either. We are being told that it doesn't matter one bit how negatively we are impacted by advertising, how malvertising spreads malware or enables mass fraud and scams the innocent out of their life savings every single day, all that matters to advertisers and data brokers is that they get their piece of the pie. The money fundamentally changed Google for the worse, it can and will happen to Mozilla. Nobody is incorruptible.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

lackey — Thu, 10 Oct 2024 14:52:02 GMT

An ad in Firefox with PPA enabled can collect as much telemetry data from you as one from before PPA shipped in the browser. Mozilla isn't reducing anything here.

Reduction is left up to the ad companies (if they are feeling uncharacteristically ethical, for some reason) or the user (by installing an ad blocker).

The only thing you can do to reduce data collection with the PPA check box is to turn it off.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Russ123 — Thu, 10 Oct 2024 15:16:15 GMT

Deeply dissapointed you enabled the privacy changes with no communication to end users. I only just found out about his, checked my settings and there it was.. I felt you were the last bastion in a market of hostile browsers. You should have asked. It's not your computer...

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

onequest — Sun, 13 Oct 2024 20:56:02 GMT

Thanks for starting a conversation about this. Honestly I don't mind having ads and sometimes even appreciate them. What I don't like is when my web experience is cluttered and poorly designed because of those ads. This is actually the primary reason I stopped using Chrome last year and switched to back Firefox after so many years without it. I use an Android device as my primary computer and was fed up with basically every single web experience feeling like a claustrophobic and trashy experience. I didn't want to read blog posts anymore, I didn't want to find recipes anymore, I didn't want to browse wiki articles about my favorite games. Literally everything was unenjoyable and I had pushed through it for years and got fed up!

Switching to Firefox has been a dream though!! I actually enjoy browsing the web again, and I never thought I would. There's nothing cluttering up the experience and getting in the way of what I want to enjoy. 😌 Thank you! All I ask is that if you're going to get into advertising that you figure out a really polished and premium way of doing it that so far I haven't seen on the web. What does that mean? Idk but it's an interesting design experiment to refine isn't it? If you can do this, I'm totally up for supporting Mozilla through an evolution like this. ✌🏼

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

doodlemancy — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 02:25:10 GMT

It really seems like you guys are just trying to do things that are inherently sort of anti-privacy (targeted advertising, AI integration) and then claiming that you're committed to doing them in a privacy-focused way, which is a bit like saying you're going to shoot yourself in the foot safely.

I get that it's tempting to stray from your core values when it'd be much more profitable to just give in and do what everyone else is doing. I don't think it's going to work out for you.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Jon — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 00:41:27 GMT

Hey all,

We’ve been reading your responses on how Mozilla can approach advertising while staying true to our core values of privacy and user control. The feedback we’ve received after sharing our perspectives has been honest, passionate, and incredibly helpful. So, let’s break down a few key takeaways and where we’re headed next:

Respecting privacy is non-negotiable: You’ve made it clear – privacy is why you’re here. You only want to share data when necessary, and to have control over the data you share.

Choice matters: A lot of you emphasized that choice is key. We hear you. We are exploring ways to improve the experience – whether it’s blocking certain types of ads (e.g., videos) or having more customizable options.

Transparency is vital: We will keep you informed about the decisions we’re making and why. Whether it’s a trial of privacy-preserving ad technology or a new revenue experiment, we’ll communicate openly and make it easy for you to opt out.

Supporting Mozilla’s mission: Keeping Mozilla and Firefox strong requires funding. Some of you have said that ads aren’t the way to go, while others understand that it’s part of sustaining our mission. We’ll continue to explore ways to support our work without losing sight of what makes Firefox special – putting users first.

Mobile experience still has room to grow: We’ve heard feedback about mobile browsers, particularly on iPhones. While there are limitations due to Apple’s policies, we’re working hard to enhance Firefox on mobile and bring more ad-blocking and privacy features to your devices.

Keep sharing your thoughts, and helping make Firefox better.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 01:40:14 GMT

I'm going to structure this reply in bullet point form with each point responding directly to the corresponding point in your comment.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we would prefer to not have to share ANY data with anyone. Unless you are going to force data brokers to profit share with us, any data collection is ethically and morally evil. We get to watch or read one piece of content once, and they get our personal data which they can sell multiple times, in multiple data blocks to multiple ad agencies and other "interested" parties. Talk about being bent over a barrel.
We don't want ANY ads. What do you not understand about "malvertising evil". It's not a specific MEDIUM of advertising like "videos" or "banners"... it's any ad can be a scam or a link to malware.
A key part of that "transparency" is telling your users about new "features" that may impact their privacy and security, and keeping them OFF by default so they are OPT-IN. You can start by not silently introducing new experiments and having them turned on.
Ads are not the way to go. Despite all your talk about working with advertisers, with less than 3% market share in the browser space nobody will be inclined to take any of this seriously. They are more likely to smile and take your "less intrusive" data blocks in addition to the "big brother" data blocks they are already buying. This initiative changes nothing, except it gives Mozilla the opportunity to step into the data broker market.
How can you possibly say you are working hard to bring more ad blocking and privacy features on mobile when more ad blocking features is directly antithetical to your stated goal of "privacy oriented advertising"? You'll need your users to see ads before you can build your data blocks to sell to advertisers. Working to make ad blocking easier and more widely available would be a self imposed obstacle making it harder for you to achieve your stated goal. I don't believe you on this one.

I opened my original comment with a remark about a general respect for our intelligence being missing from this discourse and your comment proved it. My god, you really think we're a bunch of blithering idiots don't you? Did you really think nobody would see through your obvious attempt at PR spin? Your comment suggests that any feedback which cannot be worked around to still get you what you want was completely discarded. You're not looking for other options, you're just looking for a way to dress it up so it doesn't look so bad.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

doodlemancy — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 16:43:07 GMT

LOL, the word "passionate" is a fav corpo expression for "we really wish we could do this without you guys getting mad at us." Interesting that you're actually sort of addressing this anger while completely ignoring the avalanche of rage about AI features, though.

Anyway: you've said nothing here. All you've done is restated the same vague information in a different way in hopes that it looks like you care, and you clearly don't.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

lackey — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 17:04:48 GMT

I don't think anyone who has addressed criticisms feels heard. As others have said, this is just a restatement of the original post. If I am wrong, I would love to hear concrete changes that are going to be made. Here are a couple suggestions:

Collecting extra data should not be enabled by default. If you want to collect the data, show the user a notice and allow them to choose whether they want to send extra telemetry to advertisers, the same way Brave does. Or, if you must make it "opt out," then show a notice the same way Google does.

The setting is also unclear and hard to understand. People may believe that disabling it could harm their privacy, when it is clear to people who have dug into your documentation that this is not the case. You should rename the option to something like "Send Data to Advertisers" or "Send Telemetry to Advertisers" and put promises regarding Mozilla's responsibility under that.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

wutongtaiwan — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:45:01 GMT

I repeat, I don't want any ads, it's actually very simple and doesn't require much effort. All you need is the built-in Adguard extension. Adguard is an open-source ad blocker, which is easier to use than ublock origin, and it can be more convenient to feedback when you find that there are ads that have not been blocked, and it can be processed quickly, so I recommend Adguard. As long as you have this ad filter, you can salvage your reputation, which is equivalent to declaring war on advertisers. I recommend that you work with Adguard to optimize performance when you build Adguard.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

emberfiend — Sat, 02 Nov 2024 09:42:44 GMT

I wish you'd treat us like adults and be clear about why you're doing this. Google holds the purse-strings. Are you trying to establish a non-Google revenue stream? Are you trying to appease them by crippling adblocking on FF? Why are you pushing pro-ad anything?

The linked blog posts are deeply disingenuous. Patreon and co have established that directly handing over money is how we support one another on the internet in a sane manner. Nobody alive wants to look at ads.

If you're seeking financial independence from Google, please just say so and launch Firefox Pro. There will be handwringing but I for one would gladly pay 20€/mo for a quality browser that isn't user-hostile. Use fair regional pricing and don't put any of the critical stuff behind the paywall. This is the only honest way to operate - ask (loudly) for cash from your users for the value you add. Extracting value from us via en****tification just makes everything worse for everyone. (Mozilla might also need to learn to run leaner without Google's money, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.)

The fact that you won't be clear makes me think it's option two, Google attaching strings to the cheque.

If you continue down this path and dry up all the goodwill, what's the endgame? Another undifferentiated Chrome clone in all but engine? Google gets the lion's share of the userbase (the non-tech-savvy), and the rest of us go to a fork? Is that what you want?

Your entire moat is being anti-ad (thanks to gorhill). What on earth are you doing?

...

On second thought, if you alienate enough of us, the open source forks will get more contributors. Maybe this is for the best.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

emberfiend — Sat, 02 Nov 2024 10:16:04 GMT

This is an interesting read. I unfortunately don't understand enough about company structuring, looking up public financing etc to do more up-to-date research myself. I happen to be in favour of the spending on lefty political objectives, but wow does this look like people with too much money looking for stuff to spend it on.

The C-suite compensation is the existential issue. It sounds like a Wikipedia situation, where the C-suite ends up wanting to protect their hilariously disproportionate paychecks - at the cost of long-term sustainability or sane ethics.

Re: How we’re moving forward to make ads and privacy coexist

Comrade — Sun, 02 Mar 2025 06:22:57 GMT

"For the first time, we’re introducing a Terms of Use for Firefox" This sentence tells me all I need to know. I will help Mozilla destroy the once venerable Firefox browser by uninstalling it from all my devices and encouraging everyone I meet to do the same. This day is profoundly sad.