topic Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :( in Discussions

Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

LynxIT — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:25:36 GMT

Having selected Share Ideas and Feedback from Thunderbird, I cannot find anywhere to pass feedback back to Mozilla other than creating a post here.

The latest upgrade is nothing short of abysmal, and almost unfit for fit. Who signed off on this release really does need to take a long hard look at the concept of 'usable software'. Under the previous version, everything worked fine, under this one, I have so many problems its difficult to know where to start.

MailBoxes
My 'Inbox' currently has 404 messages in it, when I go into the inbox, it automatically opens half-way down the list - not with the first or last, just half way down, regardless of the order column or A-Z, Z-A order. So the first unnecessary action every time the mailbox is changed, is to scroll to the bottom to see new emails.

In a morning, when I first start up and it checks for messages, the number of messages will generally exceed the amount that can be displayed, so you scroll up and down to see the others, thats fine, standard practice. But if ordered latest at the bottom, and you start with the oldest new message, once you hit reply or delete, the list shoots to the bottom (ie latest) so you cannot see the current or next message in the list.

The buttons for reply and forward also seem to be hit and miss if they work, sometimes taking two or three mouse clicks to activate, even when the Thunderbird screen is active.

Search

The search facility is now a joke. 50% of the time having typed in a search term (usually a name or email address) it opens a new window, does not do a search and blanks off the search - the new window shows no emails or search terms.

You also cannot move the cursor back or forth (with cursor keys or the mouse) to correct anything. If you notice a typo, the only thing you can do is delete back to the point and retype. Very infuriating, especially if you are searching on a term you have pasted in from the clipboard.

When the search does work, and it finds several emails you click on the email you want to look at. Previously this opened the email, now it opens a new search window containing just that email, which you then have to go and click to open the email. When your searching through 10-15 emails to find the one you want this is time consuming and frustrating.

Should you click on an email that has a discussion style reply, previously, it showed all the discussions and you could easily click between the various emails, which opened in the bottom panel, to read the discussion quickly and easily with the up and down arrow keys. Now only the latest email in the discussion comes up in the top of the new window, you have to click it to open in the bottom panel, but it also opens every discussion email in a new tab - which is horrendous if you have an email with 30-40 replies, as you then have 30-40 tabs to go close.

Half the time, Thunderbird now reports that the search term returned no matches, when I know and can find them myself. Previously the search in Thunderbird was really good.

The whole system has become borderline unusable since this latest update, and somebody from Mozilla needs to get a hold of things and sort it. I intend to try going back to the previous version (although I suspect the email database will have been updated which would remove that as an option) and turning auto update off.

It used to be a nice, simple, quick and easy to use piece of software, one of the best for managing emails and multiple accounts. But this latest version is atrocious and just makes what was a simple task, now complicated and difficult.

In the unlikely event any of the above are a 'new way of doing things' and there is an option in the settings I have not found to put it back as it was, please do let me know.

Rich

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

keithunder — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:15:39 GMT

Yes and the alert add on no longer works 😞 The best bit about Thunderbird is now gone 😞

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

operagost — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 22:59:30 GMT

Don't forget that you also can't add the Delete button to message windows. I always had a Delete button in the Mail Toolbar. The installer took it away, and it's not in the available icons to add back. Why?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Meem55 — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 13:15:56 GMT

@LynxIT wrote:
...
It used to be a nice, simple, quick and easy to use piece of software, one of the best for managing emails and multiple accounts. But this latest version is atrocious and just makes what was a simple task, now complicated and difficult.

Exactly this. Somehow 115 is missing the ease of use and intuitive use, 102 and previous had.
Sure, new versions of software always have the "getting to know it" factor in it. But with 115 this has gone too far. That ease of use, the logical UI, are gone or at least hidden deep 😞

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 03:15:46 GMT

I've been carefully building my Favorite Folders for a very long time. It was so helpful for me to scan that first before checking other, less important emails. Now Favorite Folders is AT THE BOTTOM OF ALL THE OTHER FOLDERS. I have to scroll down to the bottom of the page constantly. The fonts are horrible, tiny and sans serif. I like a soft colored background and the only theme I can find that comes close is like the sun blaring behind the dark blacks and bright blues. I only went away for a few days, got no notice this was coming and I had more than a thousand emails to handle.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

azdlegeo — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 03:08:20 GMT

Here are the MAIN issues I've found with the new "Upgrade" to Thunderbird 115.4.1 (which sucks more than any other upgrade of any software in my memory):

1 - messages that are supposed to automatically mark as read when selected/given focus only do so ~90-95% of the time, the rest have to be manually changed to "read."

2 - the 'Unread Messages" count that used to be in the lower right of the frame, has disappeared; to find out the number of unread messages, you have to scroll to the top of the folders pane; the total message count was moved up to the top of the Inbox message list next to the word "Inbox"; why couldn't the unread messages count have been put there too?

3 - the most annoying thing (and it's enough that if it is not fixed, I will move to another email client); when managing (deleting, moving) messages from the Inbox list, rather than the focus moving to the next message in the queue, the list jumps to the bottom, requiring scrolling every time back up to where you were in the queue. Totally unacceptable behavior.

Does anybody at mozilla know how to test software before it's pushed out, because it sure doesn't seem that way.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 05:42:36 GMT

One thing you mentioned, emails not showing up in order, is a huge problem when everything i do with banking and many other sites requires 2 factor authentication and they run a clock on that. Losing instantaneous email loading at the top means you have to spend time trying to find the email. Then you have to start again to find your code. Endless cycle of gottcha.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

wmcole — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 00:56:27 GMT

BUG 115.4.1 - Windows 10 64-bit.

I have a number of "unread" emails in the inbox pane which shows a portion of the many messages both read and unread. If I select to delete the email I am looking at, the message is sent to the Trash folder and I am shown in the message pane the next email below the one I deleted. (Sorted by date-time, oldest to most recent from top down.) The Inbox pane, however seems to scroll down the list in a way that caused the selected message in that pane to scroll out of site!?! Very inconvenient and different than pre v 115 behavior.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

nelsong — Mon, 06 Nov 2023 02:03:15 GMT

(Also, like LynxIT, I couldn't find anywhere else to post feedback, so I'm replying here)

Much like the other comments, this release is a step backwards from a product that was working nicely.

Disliking the new Density settings. The only one that works for me is the new Compact setting - but the Messages list is far too dense. The new one called Default has a decent Messages list, but now the Folders list is way to sparse ... why did you change that?

Also annoying, in the folders list, previously when I opened each Account, I could have it display just the Inbox, then access all the other folders by expanding a step further. Now that has gone, and each account has to show ALL its folders. That is not the way I work ... most times I just want to have my primary email account open and just the Inox showing, cos that's where I spend 99% of my time.

Really hoping you can restore some of this please.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Firecracker — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:14:13 GMT

I agree with the most points in this Thread. And there's still a lot of nonsense in the new version. The toolbar definitely doesn't belong at the top of the app, which contradicts the arrangement of other products. Version 115.4.2 still doesn't scroll to the last unread message even if your bug fix report says otherwise. This is all just the tip of the iceberg, it's annoying to write everything else because you know what you've done. You have destroyed a good piece of software.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Diksan — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 10:05:10 GMT

Hi, it took a few minutes to find the "get new messages" icon on a client's PC (TB had not yet been updated on mine; she found it before I did). It would have been nice to keep the text button.

Also, the random positioning of the cursor/slider on the right of the message folder is a real PITA. It should position on the new received messages. I have just replied to an E-mail from 2014!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

artdo — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 04:23:25 GMT

the new design is simply awful!!!! I'll probably swicth to another email client if I cannot roll back. But then I do not want to get stuck with an old version of thunderbird, probably better to switch to another email client now than later anyway.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

inspector71 — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 03:45:22 GMT

False?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

inspector71 — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 04:28:50 GMT

I have never found Thunderbird to be usable.

As a dedicated / suffering Firefox user and with a strong dislike for webmail, I've been looking for dedicated email clients forever, having suffered the coma ( Eudora '8' ) and life support ( 'Hermes' ) status of Eudora.

I periodically retry Thunderbird, which admittedly leaves me always setting it up again so waiting forever for IMAP sync, which Thunderbird seems very poor at (by default) but is also probably due to inherent issue with the protocol. I never used Eudora in IMAP mode which probably says a lot about why it was so usable.

Every time I try Thunderbird, it suffers from 'jank' (jerky UX) due to going into Not Responding mode.

I appreciate the developers have an extremely difficult job with Thunderbird. It's barely been maintained and wouldn't be a buildable, releasable product if not for all the development hours it inherits from Gecko (Firefox code base). It's hard to know how much work that inheritance also adds though. Continually triaging patches for their impact in a mail client context; having to pass on unpopular policies like the move to Web Extensions that broke so made so many developer's efforts redundant, requiring complete re-writes; the move away from XUL; the integration of a 60 FPS graphics engine target for the likes of WebGL and other APIs that are essentially irrelevant to a mail client, unless you think it's important to play 3D games natively in your Thunderbird.

The list goes on and on and on whilst the developers have been open about the extreme ball ache they've had to confront to merely convert the UX (user experience, user-facing windows, tabs, dialogs, sidebars, ... you name it) into something they can work on improving.

Whilst many users may have loyally, tirelessly stuck with Thunderbird over the better part of the last two decades, that continuity has never been supported by continuous development. Integrating PGP and calendaring were nothing short of incredible with the limited developers they had available. Neither of those features would have, I'm presuming, been implemented with almost any leg ups from Gecko APIs. Probably OpenPGP libraries would have provided core functionality, but they would still have had to implement, integrate and make the overall experience of using encrypted email as simplistic as possible. Something no open standards email client has ever done before. Hence the plethora of closed-standard implementations of crypto email that have proliferated since Snowden.

I personally don't care about calendaring and scrambling email with crypto isn't a priority. But the Thunderbird people doubtless inherits the ethics of Mozilla, such as enabling dissidents and whistleblowers to risk their lives to make the world a better place. Hence crypto support.

If you use Proton, for example, you need to invite non-Proton correspondents to view your crypto-scrambled email via a download link on a website that likely doesn't integrate with whatever email scenario they have. Corresponding between the walled garden of Proton users, crypto-scrambled style? No worries! All happens within their web app client. The same applies to some other post-Snowden attempts to tighten up email.

I won't be continuing to use Thunderbird this time around either. It's been a somewhat handy tool for trying to migrate mail from one gmail account to another. I'm thankful for that although it's currently confusing the crap out of me by redownloading messages back into All Mail from the source account I'm trying to retire, after I've told it to move the messages to the destination account ... as it happily did for other mail. It's performance is atrocious despite the advantages that would surely be available, but likely they've not (yet?) the developer resources to use, from WebAssembly and other hardware acceleration such as WebGPU that is turned on by default, at least sometimes I presume, but does not appear to be well utilized.

Front end UX is critical, but it's only ever enabled by the speed of the core tasks like mail handling. Otherwise developers have to go with dodgy compromises like only downloading headers by default; lazy loading mailboxes and so on.

Thunderbird developers need to publish performance targets and how they're going progressing towards them. How long, on X hardware, does Thunderbird take to present a zippy version of a folder/label with Y emails totalling about Z size? That sort of thing. They collect 'telemetry' stats. Have done for years. They need to make performance at least the equal highest priority amongst more behavioral tweaks such as keeping the mailbox positioned (scrolled status, which mail was last selected, sort mode) as desired, consistently.

I also feel that, whilst being reluctant to just target chunks of functionality I do not use, it could be important to investigate how many people actually use the non-mail features such as Matrix integration, Chat in general, feed reading (RSS). If they are not overly common, would the extremely minimal developer resources be better spent on the (arguably) core functionality behind all of the features, perhaps disintegrating some features into Add Ons? Bound to be a suggestion that creates a lot of argument unless the disintegration can be done without any noticeable disruption to users. But it is likely a debate that is sadly necessary due to limited, but much better than 5 years ago, developer resources.

For me, until the Thunderbird performance and behavioural UX issues consistently improve, I'm stuck with eM Client and it's habit of taking about 20 seconds to download the first email of the day, no matter the size, probably because it defaults to only downloading the message headers for mailboxes due to IMAP's inherant performance issues. I wonder if Thunderbird behaves more smoothly with that one big compromise? Hmmm ...

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

tjm_moz — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 16:48:18 GMT

Not much else to say, really. UNFIT for prime time. No updating here!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:46:52 GMT

Hello

"get new messages" icon

Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=945474#p945474
Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=947373#p947373
Add account context menu to unified toolbar get messages button
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1837152
Currently under Thunderbird bêta 120.0b7

Add account context menu to unified toolbar get messages button
Wait for? Thunderbird release, and see

Notes :
Order of accounts is normal
Ability to change order of accounts https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?t=152506
Account names it's normal
Account Settings panel https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/configuration-options-accounts
Account name: Here, you can name the account. The name will appear in the folder pane as well as other areas in Thunderbird where you need to navigate accounts

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:09:22 GMT

I second every word in the post by LynxIT. Version 115.4.3 seems to have eliminated the Mail Toolbar altogether! There is something online about a Unified Toolbar but this page refers to a “Tabs Bar” which is not part of the Thunderbird vocabulary (there is a Tab Strip: see here). If you keep changing the toolbars and the vocabulary, you are going to confuse everyone, including yourselves. You cannot customize the Menu Bar, so the main buttons on the Mail Toolbar (Get Messages, Write, Chat, Tag, QuickFilter, Address Book etc.) are just not there. There is no visible way to display the Mail Toolbar. It seems that in their desperate indecision as to whether the Menu Bar or the Mail Toolbar should be on top, the developers of Thunderbird decided to eliminate the Mail Toolbar altogether. What an unfortunate decision. Give us back our Mail Toolbar!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:29:05 GMT

Hello

Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?t=152213
Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=948837#p948837

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:37:55 GMT

Can you please translate your thoughts into English and post them here? And please use the Light mode not the Dark mode for your screenshots. Thanks!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:37:46 GMT

Hello

2 - the 'Unread Messages" count that used to be in the lower right of the frame, has disappeared
Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/thunderbird-number-of-selected-emails-in-the-statusbar/idi-p/41938

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:45:53 GMT

Ok, i understand

Firefox Fullpage Translation
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/website-translation ?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:56:16 GMT

I am really not sure you understand. First, you need to send us links to English-language pages, not to tell us to use Firefox Fullpage Translation for your French pages. Second, you need to post your screenshots from Thunderbird in Light Mode. So far, you have done neither. Thanks!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 05:21:25 GMT

Hello

The toolbar definitely doesn't belong at the top of the app, which contradicts the arrangement of other products.

Take a look
https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=944097
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1418752

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 07:59:17 GMT

Hello

Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/new-density-options-choices-in-115-4-3-are-terrible/m-p/45131

Additional information
What’s New in Thunderbird 115
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew

Modernised Cards View
Supernova’s new Card View is our version of the well-known vertical layout for the Message List, perfect for people used to modern webmail. Card View emulates a mobile interface list with multi-line support, offering a more comfortable appearance to reduce cognitive burden.

If you wish, you can also use the card view

About threadPaneQuickFilterButton
Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?t=152480

About calendar
Event category color to fill entire event label https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3115694

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 06:36:56 GMT

Hello

About Firefox Fullpage Translation
Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/firefox-translate-and-russian-support-russian-translations/idc-p/44499

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 06:56:12 GMT

Hello

I intend to try going back to the previous version

Take a look
https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=947874#p947874
https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?p=947137

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 22:15:49 GMT

Thank you for pointing out how to find what I need in the Tab Strip. I was able to add a few things that I need. But unfortunately, this Tab Strip is layered over the theme image which is blurred in the background. Text and icons for the mail functions have a lightly colored grey text and subdued icon colors. I don't have enough time in the day to spend trying to rebuild my email desktop. I'm still flipping out at the bold black and bright blue for each message. It's like a magazine headline. It's extremely distracting. Also if I open my inbox, then scroll down to another folder, when I come back to the inbox it has changed all the subject lines from bright blue to fat font black. It's **bleep** hard to figure out what is new and hasn't been read anymore. Why is that happening and what was the purpose of the bright blue to begin with?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:51:51 GMT

It turns out that you can get your Mail Toolbar back in Version 115.4.3 by right clicking the Menu Bar, clicking Customize, and adding buttons to the “Mail Space” as it is now called. The developers have changed the whole Thunderbird vocabulary, which makes it hard for users to understand the new interface. Thanks.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

geier — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 18:06:17 GMT

Does not sound too good.

Right now I still stay with 102 because I need to see the sender's and recipient's email addresses in the column view - Full Address Column addon does the job, but does not work in 115 anymore. I 'm hoping the feature is going to be implemented directly into Thunderbird soon, can't be too difficult I think. But after reading your comments I get the impression that Supernova is the completely wrong way to go. So now I really consider to move on to Betterbird. Maybe that is going to be the better bird anyway, like Thunderbird was until recently. 😕

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 18:41:07 GMT

Hello

New column for e-mail-address of sender
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/new-column-for-e-mail-address-of-sender/idi-p/38300

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

geier — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:18:14 GMT

That's where I came from 😉

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:27:54 GMT

Hi geier. Betterbird sounds like a good option for you. After all, your name means Vulture 🙂 Seriously, though, have you tried Betterbird? I have read their FAQ and downloaded their Windows installer but when I try to run it my Windows Smart Screen warns me not to do so (see attached image). If I click More info it says that this file comes from an Unknown Publisher. Do you know a way to verify that the installation file contains no malware and can be run safely? Thanks!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 22:08:27 GMT

Betterbird (which comes from Germany) does seem better than Thunderbird. It seems to have the good features of Thunderbird without its drawbacks. You can use your existing Thunderbird profile as your Betterbird profile and save yourself the work of setting up, importing etc. Let us hope Jörg and his fellow Betterbirders keep Betterbird as good as it is right now 😎

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

geier — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 23:00:33 GMT

I don't run Windows. Got Betterbird from my Linux distribution's repository. I'm still evaluating (not so easy to leave good old friends), but feel quite at home, because it's just what Thunderbird used to be. And I trust my repository more than Windows' warnings...

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

geier — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 22:45:16 GMT

Yes 🙂

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Meem55 — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 23:11:27 GMT

I've been using Betterbird for just over a week now and like it too. At least WAY better than Supernova.
So, two days back I uninstalled Thunderbird all together (after making a back up of the profile dir of course)
So it was/is a goodbye from me after many years. But all in all it feels okay.
The way the devs just really ignored the old time users and even now, they are just silent and absolutely ignore everybody who has issues with Supernova. That kind of arrogance is also part of the reason for me to uninstall Thunderbird. I know they will just be fine with that, that they don't care: it's one less user complaining about how they killed off a once great mail program 😞

Signing off and all the best luck to everybody.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

tjm_moz — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 15:57:33 GMT

Good morning. I've loaded Betterbird on my Debian v11 box and I'll try it out and do some configuration then make a decision. Thunderbird 115 is OUT at this time and won't be used without some significant changes and those changes should resemble v102. I saw somewhere that there might have been some collaboration between the Thunderbird folks and the K-9 mail client folks but I can't say for sure that this actually took place. I do know that I don't use the latest K-9 version on my phone for some of the same reasons that I won't use TBv115 -- I just don't like the layout and config options. Here's one thing I would like to see and soon - get rid of the **bleep**ing update notification for v115 or tell me how to remove it!!!!!

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:03:13 GMT

Just install Betterbird using the same profile as Thunderbird.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

tjm_moz — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:12:47 GMT

Done. Not everything transferred but I'll play around with it.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

tk-1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 12:31:16 GMT

The Supernova-Update has done exactly what its name implies - it has destroyed Thunderbird.

In addition to all the above mentioned bugs and UI-disasters:
- the only Way to pull mails for one account only is right-clicking an account and selecting from contextmenu now

I think to abandon Supernova and to continue development based on a previous version would be the best solution for everyone.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 12:37:17 GMT

Try Betterbird

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 14:02:09 GMT

Hello

What do you mean by the only Way to pull emails for one account
Is this about get new messages?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 14:24:45 GMT

Agentvirtuel: you have been asked several times to stop posting Dark Mode screenshots which can only be deciphered with great difficulty, yet you persist in posting them. Kindly switch your App Mode color to Light and re-display your screenshots, preferably enlarged. If this is not clear enough, here is the same message in French: Agentvirtuel : on vous a demandé à plusieurs reprises d’arrêter de publier des captures d’écran du mode sombre qui ne peuvent être déchiffrées que très difficilement, et pourtant vous persévérez à les publier. Veuillez changer la couleur de votre mode d’application sur Clair et re-afficher vos captures d’écran, de préférence agrandies. Merci infiniment.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:08:31 GMT

tk-1, what do you mean by the only Way to pull emails for one account
Is this about get new messages? https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3115055

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Jay1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 18:43:28 GMT

Address book is a disaster. I only want one. And manually editing or adding new on my pc is now impossible. I detest most of the changes. And I donated to the support of Thunderbird. Irritating to have idiot programmers.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 18:54:10 GMT

Try Betterbird

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

MrSensible — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:49:30 GMT

It would have been nice to have the ability to drag the border between the message list, and the current message being viewed, upwards indefinitely. Currently, I can only drag it up as it appears in the screen print, which means I get to look at blank, (useless) screen space below the last message in any folder list with only a few messages. It also reduces the size (vertically) of the message being viewed, which is a pita on a smaller sized laptop, like the one I'm using. I've been told the UX people decided to enforce a maximum drag and drop limit, as it appears on this screen print. More than 3 or 4 messages in the message list display, is probably more than enough for most users. 8 or more is overkill. Please TBird, correct this "one size fits all" forced update, that doesn't. Sorry, for hijacking your screen print post.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:15:28 GMT

Try Betterbird

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

MrSensible — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:21:10 GMT

It's on the list of todos. TY.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:41:12 GMT

Hello

Unless I've misunderstood

Height of the inbox list view ?
Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/thunderbird-version-supernova-the-pane-showing-messages-in-the/m-p/45700/highlight/true#M16468

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:49:18 GMT

Very complicated and totally unnecessary. Just replace your Thunderbird with Betterbird

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:59:39 GMT

Hello

Thank you for your proposal to replace my Thunderbird with Betterbird, but I don't want to, and I'm keeping Thunderbird.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 18:14:01 GMT

It’s your funeral, as they say in America 😎

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

volans — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:03:01 GMT

And where has the search box, that used to be top right, gone?

Is there any way to go to the previous version? If not, perhaps system restore is in order, I just don't want this one.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:10:45 GMT

Try Betterbird

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

MrSensible — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:19:05 GMT

I tried Betterbird, and it has exaactly the same flaws as T-Bird. For me, at least.

Can't resize/reduce the upper message list window, to increase the size of the reading pane below it. In Classic View with Message Pane and Folde Pane enabled. I can live with the rest of it. Just hate that "forced message list 9.5 line depth". It's useless to me.

Still looking for a POP alternative that can accept mail files/structure from T-Bird exports.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:53:40 GMT

Hello

Is it? Unified Toolbar https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/unified-toolbar

Drag & Drop, Search... CTRL + K

Or? is it about the quick filter
Take a look https://forums.mozfr.org/viewtopic.php?t=152480

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 18:22:51 GMT

Here is the reply from the Betterbird developer: “In TB 102 the minimum height of the message list is 100px, now it's 160px, it fits about 8 rows in compact density and 5 rows with default density. If that's too much for the user [...] They can open the message in a tab, no one needs to read the message in the preview pane [...] this particular user [...] doesn't appreciate all the things BB does much better than TB, like providing real features that TB users have been waiting for for 20+ years.”

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 18:32:05 GMT

Hello

Unless I've misunderstood
Height of the inbox list view ?
Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/thunderbird-version-supernova-the-pane-showing-messages-in-the/m-p/45700/highlight/true#M16468

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:02:25 GMT

Since you refuse to use the much better Betterbird and insist on using the useless Thunderbird, take a look (as you keep saying) at this comparison chart

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

MrSensible — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:10:32 GMT

"They can open the message in a tab, no one needs to read the message in the preview pane".

Oh really? How charmingly totalitarian of you to say that.

I like reading messages in the reading/preview pane, as that is it's purpose before TB and BB decided to make it just some useless text near the bottom of the message list window/view. It saves me time when scrolling through multiple messages in the same folder, looking for something that might be in the first few lines of the individual message, and doesn't clutter the BB or TB window with a bunch of open tabs whose purposes are soon forgotten. Pardon me for having a different opinion/perspective.

Dropping off all the so called "support pages" as there's very little actual support. It's just a bunch of computer guru wannabes, making bad guesses, and offering solutions that are often worse than the originating issue.

Adieu.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:26:54 GMT

“Oh really? How charmingly totalitarian of you to say that [...] Adieu” Thanks. I like you too. You may not have noticed, but the text you are quoting was not mine. You may wish to take a look at this Comparison Chart. Betterbird is much better than Thunderbird, but some people are so rigid they will stick to their bad old software come hell or high water.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:59:35 GMT

Can you describe how the transition of several decades of Thunderbird files and folders can be transferred over to BetterBird? I'm leery of loosing things. I know it's probably much better, but it would be like selling my 2019 Sienna in hopes that I can find a 2023 in perfect condition, low mileage and is only $5k more than what I got for my 2019.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

phbcanada — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:04:20 GMT

One of the less critical but actually very funny things that bugs me is the tiny little icon button to check for new mail and then beside it is the GREAT BIG TEXT button to compose a new message. I'm imagining two programmers/UI designers having a fight over whether to use icons or text and how big they should be. Clearly neither one has been able to convince the other!!! Ha ha. This type of inconsistency is a glaring indication of some type of mis-management.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:34:16 GMT

Hello

For your information, of course, if you haven't already read it
Add account context menu to unified toolbar get messages button
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1837152
Take a look https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/thunderbird-115-4-1-what-have-mozilla-done/m-p/45205/highlight/true#M16319

Currently under Thunderbird bêta 121.0b1

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

groucho43 — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:34:27 GMT

Betterbird has the big Get Messages button at the very beginning of the Message Toolbar (which TB does not even have unless you know how to create it) so you don’t need to click that tiny button.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:39:55 GMT

Hello

Don't insist.
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/thunderbird-115-4-1-what-have-mozilla-done/m-p/45740/highlight/true#M16484
Thank you for your proposal to replace my Thunderbird with Betterbird, but I don't want to, and I'm keeping Thunderbird.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 21:00:58 GMT

I keep accidentally clicking on the new message instead of get messages, which is at the very top of the left side of the page. Habit, I know, but I get sick of having to tip my head way up so I can see the top of the screen with my bifocals.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:12:33 GMT

Hello

If you wish, you can choose not to display the folder panel header
Uncheck the box Folder panel header

Use the Write button
Right-click on the account in the folder pane and select Check for new messages

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 20:59:33 GMT

Now I've found another annoying change. In my inbox, the "to" that used to be my name and email is now "Undisclosed Recipient." In fact all the "to" in all of my emails going back decades to 1998 have been changed to this. How do I fix this? Are recipients that I reply to not seeing my name and email address?

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Fri, 01 Dec 2023 22:50:59 GMT

I downloaded Betterbird and have been trying to Set Up Your Existing Email Address. My email address is different than my host and I am having real trouble getting it configured.I use POP3 so I used that as the protocol and the host name is the pop.hosturl. I set the port to 110 and played around with all the other required settings but it can't autodetect my email account. Can you help me with this?

I've tried every possible setting that is directly from my email server settings in thunderbird and also tried an earthlink.net (my host server) setting that is recommended on the internet. Neither of them work.

I'm done with this. There is no help on Betterbird for this so it's a waste of my time.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 20:04:56 GMT

After a long time of struggling with Thunderbird, I finally submitted to the idea of installing BetterBird. Note: you may need some knowledge about how to properly install the BB downloaded software. If you want your BB to use the same profile as your TB when you install it, you might not be able open the new software populated with the TB profile, as it may instead offer you a window to enter your internet email server's information, assuming that this will be a new account. For microsoft I went to my Start button (or Start icon) and typed into search window Run. MS users can also use use this keyboard shortcut windows plus R. If your attempt to do an installation didn't recognize Thunderbird and presents you with a window to enter your internet hosts server settings, it is assuming you don't have another profile: Thunderbird. Close BB. To successfully point to your Thunderbird account, go to the start icon in windows and type or select Run and enter the executable butterbird.exe -p This will apply your TB profile to your new BB installation. My opinion, after playing around in BB is pretty much the same. I can't find a way to see a complete email address from a sender in my inbox, without opening the email. My ability to scan and power read multiple emails is just as bad as Thunderbird. If I use Card view I get those two lines of information in the email, but the email address of the sender does not show because there is no way to enter FROM next to the search window at the top of the inbox. I can't see or sort some attributes of my emails that I used on a regular basis anymore, I only can see unread, starred, contact, tags and attachment. I am, too, worried about email fraud. I am also irritated that in each email I am now, in the TO line, referred to as Undisclosed Recipient going back to emails from 1998, I only see the email address if I hover over it. MY FAVORITE FOLDERS ARE GONE AFTER CLOSING BB AND OPENING TB BACK UP. It's a group of Favorite Folders that has taken me a few years to build, gone in a few seconds. That was supposed to be at the top so I could quickly scan them for important email. I have no idea how BB has planned to explain to us how to change the TB profile to suit our needs, it's not clear. I've spent way too much time fighting with settings that go nowhere.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Mon, 04 Dec 2023 18:27:56 GMT

UNDISCLOSED RECIPIENT. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN HOW TO CHANGE MY EMAIL "TO AND FROM" FROM UNDISCLOSED RECIPIENT?

EVERY EMAIL SINCE 1998 HAS BEEN CHANGED TO THIS SINCE THUNDERBIRD DROVE OVER THE EDGE OF INSANITY AND TOOK US ALL WITH IT. THIS IS EXTREMELY ANNOYING.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

geier — Tue, 05 Dec 2023 01:52:45 GMT

How to get full email addresses displayed in Betterbird:

In Settings -General - ConfigEditor change the values of mail.addressDisplayAuthor and mail.addressDisplayRecipients from 1 (name only) to 2 (email only) or 3 (name and email).

(And it should not be too difficult to have that in Thunderbird too, I suppose. 🙄 )

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DTR2001 — Sun, 31 Dec 2023 11:22:00 GMT

Was this update a bad joke? It's slow, crashes and makes your eyes bleed just to look at it!

Thanks goodness for a reddit user that provided a clear set of instructions on how to downgrade and prevent future updates. How anyone thought this update was a good idea is beyond me!

Thunderbird has been my go to email app for years but this update is making me re-evaluate my options.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 31 Dec 2023 11:13:53 GMT

Hello

Thunderbird other information
If you wish, this other possibility
With a message opened in a new window
Click on drop-down menu and select account
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/thunderbird-just-updated-now-i-dont-get-new-messages-from-all-3/m-p/46910/highlight/true#M16834

Other information
To see, i also use, SeaMonkey https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/layout-in-the-new-thunderbird-115-is-terrible/m-p/48105#M17164

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

alkine — Mon, 27 May 2024 00:37:44 GMT

Yes, this is the worst version ever. It has so many issues. Things that worked and don't any more.
Like new messages, you can't have them at the bottom, they need to be at the top.
Like you need to move the thunderbird window (Windows 11) to see if you received any new messages.
Like font sized that changed in emails from before.
I had to spend many hours to be able to use it again, and to learn new ways to use it.
Then I spent many hours looking for a replacement, because it's not acceptable.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

DRocket — Mon, 27 May 2024 18:46:06 GMT

I gave up trying to fix it so it was efficient for me to work with. I've kept it on my desktop but I don't use it often. I have my cell phone with me and I use an app: TypeApp. It's an amazing app. It does pretty much everything thunderbird should be doing but isn't. If I do work at my desktop and have my cell phone with me, I can check emails for safety on the phone by clicking on More Details and immediately see the sender's email address. If I click on More Options I can show Mail Headers and really get the kind of information I want to see on occasion.

Mozilla is not going to help us. I don't know why but I guess it was time for it to just die a long miserable death.

Re: Thunderbird 115.4.1 - What have Mozilla done :(

Agentvirtuel — Sun, 09 Jun 2024 04:41:43 GMT

Hello

This parenthesis
This https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/keep-firefox-alive-on-wint7/m-p/47527
With Windows7 for my part i installed Zorin OS in dual-boot